"oh let them have fun" drinking

[Greenday]

Actually, studies have shown that occasional binge type drinking in adolescents can contribute to damage in the brain that shows up in later years.

How is this different from anything I said?

Teens do not need to be drinking...period!

So what's are adults' excuses? My friends and I wanted to kick back and have some beers. How is that any different from adults doing the exact same thing?

Having a few glasses of wine isn't going to leave you brain damaged.

That's not binge drinking. Your studies state binge drinking will cause harm. I even stated binge drinking will cause harm. I can't find any research saying having a few drinks a couple times a month will have such damaging effects.

[Ree]

So what's are adults' excuses? My friends and I wanted to kick back and have some beers. How is that any different from adults doing the exact same thing?

The alcohol is going to metabolize differently in the adult.
In an adult, the drinking won't be interfering with a developing brain at that point. The brain has already developed and all those hormones have done their thing in the body.
I am not saying there won't be damage to an adult's body, because, as I mentioned already, it's a toxin that we are choosing to introduce into our bodies.
My main concern with youth drinking is the effect on the developing brain.

That's not binge drinking. Your studies state binge drinking will cause harm. I even stated binge drinking will cause harm. I can't find any research saying having a few drinks a couple times a month will have such damaging effects.

That would depend on what you mean as "a few drinks a couple of times a month".

I believe one of the links I provided explained that, because of the way alcohol reacts in young people, many are not able to realize that they are, in fact, over their limit, and there is a greater risk to over-indulge.

This the commonly accepted definition of binge drinking:

Today the generally accepted definition of binge drinking in the United States is the consumption of five or more drinks in a row by men — or four or more drinks in a row by women — at least once in the previous 2 weeks. http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alco...nge_drink.html

A recent Swedish study, for example, defines a binge as the consumption of half a bottle of spirits or two bottles of wine on the same occasion. Similarly, a study in Italy found that consuming an average of eight drinks a day was considered normal drinking -- clearly not bingeing. In the United kingdom, bingeing is commonly defined as consuming 11 or more drinks on an occasion. But in the United States, some researchers have defined bingeing as consuming five or more drinks on an occasion (an "occasion" can refer to an entire day). And now some have even expanded the definition to include consuming four or more drinks on an occasion by a woman.
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/BingeDrinking.html

[Greenday]

Seeing as America is prude as shit compared to the rest of the world, I'm going to have a hard time taking the American definition too seriously. Binge drinking, to me, is drinking yourself until you are actually drunk.

[Ree]

Seeing as America is prude as shit compared to the rest of the world

I don't think it's being prudish to take actual studies that clearly show certain physiological effects of alcohol consumed in certain manners and then use them to define what constitutes binge drinking.

[Greenday]

And yet I never said binge drinking was okay. I said having a few drinks every week or two isn't binge drinking, which it clearly isn't. Meaning that all the research you keep posting about binge drinking being harmful, has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

[Ree]

Actually, I believe the issue I was addressing was not whether you were condoning binge drinking. It was your problem with the definition of what constitutes binge drinking.

What you see as "a few drinks every week" may not seem like bingeing to you, but it may well fit the current US definition of bingeing, depending on exactly what "a few drinks" entails.

You want it to fit your version of bingeing, because you don't want to accept that the way you and your friends drink could possibly be considered bingeing. (I am not saying it is, since I don't actually know your drinking habits.)

When I first brought up the harmful effects of binge drinking, you had admitted to occasional excessive underage drinking:

My friends and I drank underage plenty. Our parents knew and supplied us. Did we overdo it sometimes? Yea, a little.

Based on what I have seen as the definition, in my opinion, that could qualify as binge drinking.

You were originally referring to "having a few drinks a couple times a month" and now you are saying, "a few drinks every week". Again, what is "a few drinks" and is it every week, or only twice a month? Do you drink to the point where you could be considered legally intoxicated, or is it just a drink or two to be social?

I am not judging at all, Greenday, as I drink alcohol on occasion as well.
I did not drink when I was underage, though.

Preventing underage drinking is something that I am very adamant about, and I am especially upset with parents who condone it and even supply the alcohol.
I have been seeing the results of it for many year now, since I first started doing foster care and have been dealing with alcohol addicted teens and substance abuse, many who had their first drink supplied by a parent who thought it was cool to be a buddy so their kid didn't get drunk on the streets, or so they had a drinking partner.

[Greenday]

It's terrible that there are people who are addicted to alcohol and ruin their lives. But alcohol isn't the cause of all that is wrong. Just because it ruined some peoples' lives doesn't mean it's bad for everyone or that it'll hurt everyone which is what is being said here. It's completely possible to drink underage, not become an alcoholic, and not rot your brain. Overdoing it a couple of times is not going to make you an alcoholic and it's not going to rot your brain. Binge drinking multiple days of the week will, except most teenagers don't do that. Most college students don't even do that. The majority of people who drink underage have no damaging long term effects. Just look at the current adult population and what they did. So many of them drank underage and did tons of drugs. And amazingly, most of them are doing alright.

[Ree]

It's completely possible to drink underage, not become an alcoholic, and not rot your brain. Overdoing it a couple of times is not going to make you an alcoholic and it's not going to rot your brain.

Yes, it's quite possible to regularly ingest a toxin and have no long term ill effects on the body, but it is also true that it does happen, and the risks are fairly high that there will be an effect on the brain. It may just be mild, or it may be severe.
Why take the risk?

It's possible to drink and not become an alcoholic, but it does happen.
Certainly there are genetic factors among other considerations, but science is still trying to figure out why one person develops an addiction while another doesn't. Studies are showing that the younger one is introduced to alcohol, the greater risk there is for developing dependence.

Teens who start drinking before age 15 are 5 times more likely to develop alcohol problems as adults.

-National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

More than 4 in 10 people who begin drinking before age 15 become alcoholic at some point in their lives.

-National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

Forty percent of adolescents report drinking by 8th grade, and 55 percent report being drunk at least once by 12th grade.
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio.../adolflyer.htm

Let's take the brain damage and risk of alcoholism out of the equation for a moment.
There is immaturity involved when young people drink, and that puts them at higher risk of engaging in dangerous behaviours.

Alcohol is linked with an estimated 5,000 deaths in people under age 21 each year--more than all illegal drugs combined.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death in people aged 15 to 20. Deadly crashes involving alcohol are twice as common in teens compared with people 21 and older.

Four out of 10 teens who drown have been drinking alcohol.

Underage drinking has also been linked with deaths and injuries from burns, falls, alcohol poisoning, and suicide.

-National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.../snapshot.aspx

Am I saying that every underaged person who drinks will become a brain dead alcoholic?
No.

Am I saying that they will all die in accidents or through alcohol poisoning?
No.

I am talking about risk factors and accepted studies that back them up.

I am just questioning why any intelligent adult would choose to allow a young person to take the risk of being that 1 in how many who is adversely affected in the long term.

[Gravekeeper]

Thus it's not irresponsible to let your kid drink every so often.

Yes it is.

But you said alcohol damage is permanent. If it's permanent, how could you have "straightened his ass back out"? Alcohol doesn't cause people to be jerks or losers or whatever. People do that to themselves. What else was he doing? Was he doing drugs? Who was he hanging out with?

Finish reading the paragraph. -.-

He wasn't doing drugs, no. His parents decided it was perfectly fine for him to drink underage long as they supervised. Being young, stupid and immature, the buzz hooked him and he replaced more and more of his entertainment with drinking. Then he started drinking outside of the house because mom and dad wouldn't let him get drunk at home. It spiralled from there till he was doing the weekend party thing. It, naturally, had an adverse affect on every aspect of his life and he went through a rough couple years, as did his parents, trying to get him back on the straight and narrow.

And it's his parents fault for enabling it in the first place.

I am just questioning why any intelligent adult would choose to allow a young person to take the risk of being that 1 in how many who is adversely affected in the long term.

Exactly, thank you. That's really all I was trying to say as well.

[Greenday]

While some of those stats can't be fought, I have to nitpick some of them.

Of course alcohol leads to more deaths than drugs. Alcohol is ridiculously easier to get seeing as drugs are illegal to everyone.

"Underage drinking has also been linked with deaths and injuries from burns, falls, alcohol poisoning, and suicide." - Really? How is this different from adults? Adults do these too.

"Forty percent of adolescents report drinking by 8th grade, and 55 percent report being drunk at least once by 12th grade." - You do realize you only have to drink once to be considered a drinker on these surveys, once? They all made us fill out these surveys on drugs and alcohol at the end of high school asking us what we've experienced drugs, alcohol, and sex-wise (completely anonymously of course). They didn't ask you if you drank all the time. They would just ask if you have drank at all. It's extremely inflated. As for 55% being drunk by 12th grade, that generally happens when people are introduced to alcohol, no matter how old you are. You have to learn you limits and generally this happens by having one too many by mistake.

[Mytical]

Some things to consider, however. The very term "you have to learn your limits" is a problem in this case. Most young people do not know what limits are, let alone their limits. Its always "That happens to other people".

Hey, I had a few when I was younger also. It was considered a rite of passage. While I turned out ok in many aspects..I can not honestly say that it didn't contribute to my illness. I don't know, and that is the thing. Could have had absolutely zero to do with it, or could have been a major factor. I think drinking alcohol should absolutely be held till later.

Then again, I think Caffeine and many other things should be held till later also. I'm even for limiting sugar intake when possible. The human body is a machine, the more gunk you pile in it, the better chance of it developing problems. Yes, everybody is different...

Some people can smoke 3 packs a day, drink a 24 pack a day, and not have a single problem..but some do. I would not buy or serve alcohol to minors, nor allow it in my house. How somebody raises their children is up to them, but I would prefer not to play russian roulette with my child.

[LexiaFira]

and after reading all these facts and good points and debate issues...the sad thing. I feel i can honestly say if you brought this up in a speech at a highschool the students would not care. as quoted

Most young people do not know what limits are, let alone their limits. Its always "That happens to other people".

or worse, this doesn't pertain to me I'm not hurting myself, i can still drink blah blah. i say this because of the few times i went to said speeches i paid attention. every one else around me was bored out of their minds or didn't care.
hell i should probably bring up a presentation and do it like Roger from American dad did. but i'd skip all the facts and go straight to this. "kids, its simple, you drink, you end up like this!" point to the slide of steve making out with the tall hairy girl in the skirt. (could not find youtube of it)
i believe if i had a slide of a girl making out with a guy of similar...lacking beauty aka "ugly" for it to be effective possibly. otherwise unless we bring in someone that its actually happened to brain damage and all its like the person giving the speech is wasting their breath as most teens don't care

some do, I count myself in the small percentage that do as I got up on stage and put on the drunk goggles. and participated cause it only took two hangovers in my life for me to not want to get drunk again anytime soon. but was also raised in a household that forebade such things and until i was 18 was unaware of things as liquor stores as mom specifically moved to a dry town and honestly beer didn't interest me and it tastes nasty to me

[blas87]

Parents who buy kegs of beer for their kids and friends and think nothing of letting the kids "have fun".....well, they are liable for not only legal charges of providing alcohol to minors (which is a hefty fine!) but also if any of those kids takes off in a car or hurts themselves in any way, they can be sued by the parents. So yeah, do that at your own risk.

[Ginger Tea]

My Father had no hand in this tale other than the one the beer was in.

Before I was born, I might have been on the horizon though, my dad left a bottle of Newkie (Newcastle brown ale) on my brothers high chair and turned his back for a moment, when he returned for his bottle it was on it's side and my brother was rather drunk, dad was on nappy duty all the time after that till it calmed down down there [cue clip of "the horror, the horror"]
Nowadays it seems to be a youtube meme to get drunk children on camera.

And wasn't Drew Barrymore permanantly wasted for most of her childhood? Now she seems none the worse for it, but as I only know her for her screen work, not knowing her personally, who's to say she isn't hampered outside of reading her lines and acting on screen?

[Gravekeeper]

And wasn't Drew Barrymore permanantly wasted for most of her childhood? Now she seems none the worse for it, but as I only know her for her screen work, not knowing her personally, who's to say she isn't hampered outside of reading her lines and acting on screen?

Rehab at 13, suicide attempt at 14, engaged at 16, engaged again to a different guy at 17, nude pics at 17, in Playboy a few years later, flashed David Letterman on network television, two failed marriages, etc etc.....I'd say she's a bit worse for wear for it, hehe.