my homophobic inlaws

[smileyeagle1021]

More specifically that they don't even realize how homophobic they are.

One (an uncle in law) has point blank said he finds any complaints of inequality "amusing" that gays complaining about discrimination makes him laugh... yet he has nothing against homosexuals (just apparently thinks us having equal rights is a joke).
He also tries to claim I'm a bigot for labeling any disagreement homophobia... umm, hate to break it to you, but when the disagreement is you think I'm inferior, then yes, it is homophobia.

Then there is my sister in law who "loves" her gay brother and wishes the best for us, but has told us point blank, we will never know the true happiness she knows because we don't have a "real" marriage (you know, one with both a penis and a vagina, because reproductive organs determine love).
This same sister in law is trying to take over the parenting of another sister in law's daughter because said sister in law is not pushing her daughter to be active in the church and to have good Christian values (which she has already established includes that homosexuals can't truly be happy).

Then there is my mother in law who says I am disrespectful for disagreeing with her church leadership on its teachings on homosexuality... umm, excuse me, but you claim to love your son, you should be disagreeing with the church's teachings with me... unless you are saying you love your son despite him being inferior, week, and unfaithful (official Mormon doctrine, at least as of two years ago, was that homosexuality was just one of many flaws God gave us to test us, which means acting on it makes you week and unfaithful to God). Now, this may be more religious bigotry than homophobia, but she will not tolerate any religious views discussed with her that aren't her own, try to tell her that you don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and watch the sparks fly (and I don't even mean telling her something like she's insane to think Smith was a prophet, just tell her you don't believe it yourself).

And of course, my brother in law who before the wedding point blank said he didn't want to go to a wedding where homos would kiss because it was just gross and wrong.

Yeah, I love my husband, my in laws, just drive me nuts.

[Greenday]

Religion supporting anti-homosexual views is just institutional homophobia. A rose by any other name is still a rose just like a homophobe by any other name is still a homophobe.

[bainsidhe]

I'd probably tell her I have no idea who Joseph Smith is. That would blow her mind.

(I'm not kidding, I really don't know and I'm much too lazy to look it up. )

[AdminAssistant]

Joseph Smith was the conman *ahem* minister who supposedly found the magic tablets that led him to create the Mormon church. Which, according to God, had to be founded in Utah.

Oh, and the Garden of Eden is apparently in Southwest Missouri. Dude was crazyface.

[bara]

Be gay and be proud. Ive worked and served in the military with many gay people and was proud to do so.

[Ree]

He also tries to claim I'm a bigot for labeling any disagreement homophobia... umm, hate to break it to you, but when the disagreement is you think I'm inferior, then yes, it is homophobia.

Of course I don't know the family, and am not minimizing how you are being treated, but actually, I have found, with many of the gay people I know, (my nephew included), any argument or differing view always seems to come down to an accusation of homophobia.

There's never any acknowledgment that the person could have a legitimate opposing point, it always seems to be about the fact that they hate gays.

[Andara Bledin]

Of course I don't know the family, and am not minimizing how you are being treated, but actually, I have found, with many of the gay people I know, (my nephew included), any argument or differing view always seems to come down to an accusation of homophobia.

While I have met people like that, having known Smiley for a while and noting the example he gave, I feel pretty safe in saying that he is not one of those people.

But speaking of such people, my former father-in-law was one, only in his case, it was because he wasn't any sort of minority and whoever disagreed with him either was or was a 'sympathizer.'

^-.-^

[smileyeagle1021]

There's never any acknowledgment that the person could have a legitimate opposing point,

Part of the problem is that bigotry often times mirrors legitimate opposing points.

Example, same sex marriage (oh how I wish we had worked up to that with this uncle)

Legitimate opposing point: Marriage has a religious connotation that government shouldn't interfere with. We need to find a way of granting legal protections that don't interfere with religious beliefs. (believe it or not, most gay people I know, myself included, would have no problem with a 'civil union' or other such contract as long as it really does have the same protections as marriage... as it is though, every civil union proposal to date has been far inferior to a marriage contract which is why most gay people oppose them as they exist now).

Bigoted point (which my uncle in law has taken): Marriage has a religious connotation that gay people just don't deserve to have.

They sound a lot a like, but the difference is obvious.

And in defense of your nephew, for every one person I hear using a legitimate point, I hear easily 3 or 4 people who are bigots trying to make their point sound legitimate (and that's on a good day), so I don't blame people who will hear one of those arguments and just roll their eyes and go "oh not again" and figure it is someone trying to hide bigotry in a legitimate sounding argument.

[Ladeeda]

Feh, marriage as a religious institution is a modern concept. For centuries, marriages couldn't be performed in the church because it mentioned sex. Religious just kind of absorbed it.

Marriage is a legal protection, period. If it were about religion, there would be no government paperwork required.

[daleduke17]

Joseph Smith was the conman *ahem* minister who supposedly found the magic tablets that led him to create the Mormon church. Which, according to God, had to be founded in Utah.

Oh, and the Garden of Eden is apparently in Southwest Missouri. Dude was crazyface.

It was founded in New York. Apparently the Mormons/LDS/whatever they want to be called aren't well liked as they were chased from Missouri and Illinois.

[smileyeagle1021]

Joseph Smith was the conman *ahem* minister who supposedly found the magic tablets that led him to create the Mormon church. Which, according to God, had to be founded in Utah.

As has been mentioned by others, Joseph Smith actually founded the church in New York and moved it to Illinois, after being forced out (not entirely due to bigotry, the people in those communities did have some very legit complaints) of Illinois it was Brigham Young who had the vision to move the church to Utah.

[daleduke17]

As has been mentioned by others, Joseph Smith actually founded the church in New York and moved it to Illinois, after being forced out (not entirely due to bigotry, the people in those communities did have some very legit complaints) of Illinois it was Brigham Young who had the vision to move the church to Utah.

It would have been interesting to see how Nauvoo and SLC would have turned out had the Mormons stayed in Nauvoo. Now it is just a sleepy town of 1,000. Looking at Wikipedia, Nauvoo was just as big, if not bigger than, Chicago at one point.

[smileyeagle1021]

dale, despite what Mormon propagandists like to claim, Salt Lake really wouldn't be that much different.

Even without the church, we still would be the closest major habitable area to some of the largest salt mines in the country, we still would be at the foothills of some of the best skiing mountains in the country, we still would be at a major crossroads for travelers to stop at, and would still be isolated enough for the military to build facilities here. We might not be quite as large, but we still would be a major city in our own right, the church really doesn't employ nearly as many people as they like to claim (when you take it in context of all employment in the city, yeah they have a few thousand jobs, but there are over a million jobs, probably closer to 1.5 maybe even 2 million, in the metro area).

[daleduke17]

That's cool, smiley. I didn't think the church built most of SLC, but I figured they had a big hand in it and without them, SLC may have been a 50-60,000 person town.

[smileyeagle1021]

We'd probably be about half the size that we are now, but that would still be over a million people. I think that might be part of why everyone thinks SLC would be a nothing town without the church, because they don't realize just how large the city is. The 5 county metro area covers an area over 100 miles by 20 miles and have something like 2.25 million residents.