The "inferiority" of America

[smileyeagle1021]

Yeah; black on black slavery had been happening for centuries before evil whitey muscled in on the act.

The difference, black slave owners were warriors working prisoners of war. We can debate the validity of those wars as much as we want (though I'd say they probably weren't right), but it was a matter of, we fought, you lost.
Evil Whitey getting involved, there was no war, there was just kidnapping and brainwashing to convince the slaves that they were inferior not because of a lack of fighting skill but rather as punishment from God.

So yes, Evil Whitey is an apt description, we turned slavery from an evil of war to one of the greatest human rights crimes ever committed.

[laura]

As far as I'm concerned the general rule is "bitch about your own country as much as you like but be careful before you pick on someone else's country"... Every time you point a finger you've got three pointing back at you. I don't like the UK. I was born here. I'm English. However there are so many things wrong with this country; including the increasing gap between the richest and the poorest.

[Nyoibo]

I only bitch about countries I've lived in, So Australia and the US.

[Pinecone]

It's okay to talk shit about how flawed America is, but if we dare criticize another culture, we're being bigoted or ethnocentric.

It can be annoying but I think it makes some sense in the context of US college courses: we should be more critical of our own culture since, to the extent that we live in a democracy, we control what it does.

[Greenday]

So yes, Evil Whitey is an apt description, we turned slavery from an evil of war to one of the greatest human rights crimes ever committed.

The only difference between what Americans did and what Africans did is the scale upon which it happened. One is not more evil than the others.

[Boozy]

The only difference between what Americans did and what Africans did is the scale upon which it happened. One is not more evil than the others.

This is SO wrong.

Unlike elsewhere, slavery in America was based on race. Black slaves in America were believed to be non-human, or less than human. This is utterly different than slavery in any other part of the world at any time in history.

[Rapscallion]

Then there's what whites did to whites. Indentured servitude was pretty nasty as well.

Memory of days gone by tells me that the white 'servants' suffered a higher death rate in the crossing of the Atlantic because slaves had been paid for and the servants had to be paid at the end of their servitude.

Rapscallion

[RecoveringKinkoid]

This is SO wrong.

Unlike elsewhere, slavery in America was based on race. Black slaves in America were believed to be non-human, or less than human. This is utterly different than slavery in any other part of the world at any time in history.

(I don't know if anyone here has read Black Mutiny, which is the book the movie Amistad was based on.
Black Mutiny is more along the lines of historical fact and has not been processed through Hollywood...and as such, ain't the feel good book of the summer, if you follow me. Slavery was a disgusting business no matter what color you were. )

I may be way off base here, but I read this as saying that white Americans were not going over to Africa and kidnapping people (as shown in Roots, as if I'm remembering that correctly). They were buying them from the African slave trade...which was operated by black Africans.

I'm not saying that made it okay...it certainly does not.

Going with what little I know about slavery in other cultures, in ancient Rome, slaves could and did become citizens, even high ranking ones. They weren't considered non human and they could change their lot. And it wasn't based on race. Native Americans kept slaves at the same time white culture over here did...and their slaves were considered non-human...however, so was everyone who wasn't a member of that tribal affiliation. One could, however, become "human" and thus no longer a slave.

I think what Boozy is saying is that in while culture in America, it was based on race, and yeah, it certainly was. I suppose blacks were considered subhuman so their oppressors could feel okay about what they were doing.

Raps, I don't know about that death rate figure for the simple fact that slavers would often dump their "cargo" at sea for various reasons.

[Greenday]

This is SO wrong.

Unlike elsewhere, slavery in America was based on race. Black slaves in America were believed to be non-human, or less than human. This is utterly different than slavery in any other part of the world at any time in history.

So it being based on race makes it worse slavery? Slavery is slavery, regardless of why it's done. Africans cared as much about their slaves as Americans did. If they cared more, they wouldn't have kept slaves. What about the Chinese that have to sell themselves into slavery to get out of China? Is that not as bad since it's not done because of their race but their situation? What about sex slaves in random places throughout the world? Are those slave owners not so bad since it's not about race?

Slavery is bad no matter what the reason. There are no degrees of slavery. Owning a human being, whether it be because they are black, poor, or in a bad situation, is wrong on so many levels that the reasoning for it means nothing at that point.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Not to mention the whole "white" slavery deal. It was called that to distinguish it from so called "black" slavery; but is now known as "human trafficking".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_s...rostitution%29

[smileyeagle1021]

So it being based on race makes it worse slavery? .

in a way, yes, it does.
American slavery was unique in that it taught that those who were slaves deserved it because God had damned them. God had damned them from birth and since it was God who damned them, they had no hope of ever being redeemed. As I understand it, slave owners didn't even believe their black slaves had souls.
Part of the problem is we continue to call them slaves, when in reality, being a slave would have been an improvement upon how American slaves were treated, to White American slaveholders they were livestock, they were nothing but beasts of burden and were used and treated as such.

[Rapscallion]

Part of the problem is we continue to call them slaves, when in reality, being a slave would have been an improvement upon how American slaves were treated, to White American slaveholders they were livestock, they were nothing but beasts of burden and were used and treated as such.

Um, that's pretty much what happened in Roman times. There were laws about it, but most slaves back then had a really shitty existence.

Are you saying there's a more ethical version of slavery that's ever happened?

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

Um, that's pretty much what happened in Roman times. There were laws about it, but most slaves back then had a really shitty existence.

Are you saying there's a more ethical version of slavery that's ever happened?

Rapscallion

Exactly. Slavery is slavery. Reasons for it doesn't matter. It's completely messed up regardless of the reason. People say reason matters. What does the matter reason? They are slaves regardless. I'm more worried about that fact since the reason doesn't change the fact that they are slaves. No reason is better or worse than another.

[smileyeagle1021]

Okay, here's one that you'll have to admit makes it worse.
Rome never said all men were created equal.
The United States put that in our founding documents.
So, which is it, are we a nation of racists who didn't view African as human or a nation of hypocrites.
This same question could be asked about the GLBT equal rights debate, does this nation view gays and lesbians as not human or are we hypocrites who don't really believe all are created equal.

We can debate all we want about whether American slavery was better, worse, or the same than Roman or any other slavery, it will always come back to that question, are we a nation of bigots who can view others as less than human and therefor not worthy of equal rights, or are we a nation of hypocrites that don't stand by our founding principles (or both).

[Greenday]

Okay, here's one that you'll have to admit makes it worse.
Rome never said all men were created equal.
The United States put that in our founding documents.
So, which is it, are we a nation of racists who didn't view African as human or a nation of hypocrites.
This same question could be asked about the GLBT equal rights debate, does this nation view gays and lesbians as not human or are we hypocrites who don't really believe all are created equal.

We can debate all we want about whether American slavery was better, worse, or the same than Roman or any other slavery, it will always come back to that question, are we a nation of bigots who can view others as less than human and therefor not worthy of equal rights, or are we a nation of hypocrites that don't stand by our founding principles (or both).

Hypocrisy isn't even a worry to me. Either you are doing something insanely wrong or you aren't. Being hypocritical about it doesn't really change anything at that point.