Well that's what happens....

[DrFaroohk]

...when you do something stupid. Like go to your ex-boyfriends house, barge in on him and his new girlfriend, and make a scene, and start bitching about money and being as antagonizing as you can. Yeah, that's it. You get grabbed by the neck and slammed into the wall.

Now, I normally don't condone much in the way of violence. I think there's always a better way to handle things. However, I also believe that sometimes right and wrong become irrelevant when you knowingly walk into an explosive situation and do something stupid.

Just like if you go into a black neighborhood and yell the N word everywhere. Is it "right" for them to kill you? no, but it's your own damn fault because you knew full well what would happen.

Now poor guy probably has to spend a few nights in jail and I really don't think he deserves it. Sometimes people need to be accountable for their own stupidity.

[the_std]

Now poor guy probably has to spend a few nights in jail and I really don't think he deserves it. Sometimes people need to be accountable for their own stupidity.

And sometimes people need to handle difficult situations like adults, without resorting to violence. There is a very good reason it's a crime to do this kind of thing to someone, and it doesn't matter how antagonizing they are being. Unless your life is in danger, you have no reason to slam someone into the wall like that. Yeah, what she was doing was annoying as fuck and she definitely deserved to have the police called on her for trespassing, but once he put his hands on her like that, he lost. Instantly.

[DrFaroohk]

This is where I disagree. She knew beforehand what the consequences would be and did it anyway. That's what happens when you deliberately provoke someone who hates you and has been drinking.

If it was just like "Hey honey here's supper" and he wa slike "What? SOUP IS NOT A MEAL! SMACK!" that's a litle different.

Unless we're going to use the argument that it is NEVER, EVER ok to use violence unless there's real physical danger? In which case I'm sure I can find another contradiction there somewhere....

[Andara Bledin]

This is where I disagree. She knew beforehand what the consequences would be and did it anyway. That's what happens when you deliberately provoke someone who hates you and has been drinking.

Being drunk and provoked is not an excuse. At least, not a valid and reasonable one.

^-.-^

[Nyoibo]

What is a valid defence however is if someone enters your home and is being verbally or physically threatening, Castle Doctrine anyone?

[Andara Bledin]

Castle Doctrine generally only works if you have a reasonable fear for your life. And that only matters in a state that actually recognizes the defense, which isn't automatic.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

This is a tricky one. I still think it's his fault for assaulting her and I don't like the "blame the victim" mentality. But I think it may have been justified since she basically broke into his home. I don't know the extent of the injuries involved, but I do believe one should be able to use reasonable physical force against aggressive intruders.

[Andara Bledin]

She entered unlawfully, but unless the door was locked against her, she did not, legally speaking, break in.

From the OP, she barged in, yelled a lot and generally made an ass of herself. It is not mentioned whether she got physical at any point.

^-.-^

[Nyoibo]

Still trespassing.

[Andara Bledin]

Not only did I not deny it, I specifically opened by saying so.

^-.-^

[bainsidhe]

This is where I disagree. She knew beforehand what the consequences would be and did it anyway. That's what happens when you deliberately provoke someone who hates you and has been drinking.

If it was just like "Hey honey here's supper" and he wa slike "What? SOUP IS NOT A MEAL! SMACK!" that's a litle different.

No offense, but the above quote can actually be the exact same situation. Wife knows hubby had better like the meal or he will smack her, because he's a mean drunk. I realize that's not how you meant it, the comments can just be interpreted differently.

I see your point about the original story, she was trespassing, had NO RIGHT to be there, was acting foolishly and was antagonizing him. She was an ass and should be punished. BUT. He didn't deflect her, shove her away, try to chase her out. He forcefully grabbed her throat and slammed her into a wall. I'm not sure I like that he's in jail over it, but I also wouldn't let it slide. He could've walked away. Called the cops. But he played a part in the final result, even if she instigated it.

[KabeRinnaul]

She entered unlawfully, but unless the door was locked against her, she did not, legally speaking, break in.

Breaking and entering occurs when one enters an area without permission that was not open to travel. Walking into someone's house without their permission when the door is standing wide open? Trespassing. Doing the same while the door is closed and unlocked? Breaking and entering. In some states, forcing an entrance (by kicking it open, picking the lock, etc) is part of the definition of burglary, but B&E is the lower standard.

On-topic, all that really gets the guy is mitigating circumstances during his assault & battery hearing, should it progress that far.

[blas87]

I don't condone the violence part at all, unless she got physical with him first.

Now, if she waltzed in, made a scene, yelled and swore, she'd have it coming by having the cops called on her and harrasment charges slapped on her. But not being slammed against a wall if she didn't physically assault him first.

I agree with the line of thinking, but not the extreme way this situation ended. I agree that people should think before they do stupid things, but I don't think the woman deserved to be thrown against a wall.

However, I may be a hypocrite in a sense that if this happened to me regarding my recent ex bf, I would have a hard time controlling myself in not wanting to, at the very least, shove him as hard as I could OUT the door. Not to beat him bloody or throw him against a wall, that's not even possible nor do I want to do that, but I'd be very tempted to use physical force to get him out of here.

[DrFaroohk]

Well I have a sort of general way of thinking about things. I was always told minor little details don't matter, that it's the overall situation. So here I see:

Person A knowingly put themselves in a negative situation. Person A has no right to complain about negative situation.

Basically that. It could be situation I described, or it could be that she's lactose intolerant and ate a bunch of cheese. Or when I lived in a druggie apartment building and got terrorized. My fault. I knew junkies lived there, I knew what could've happened, and I didn't do anything to better my situation. Cops, friends, everyone agreed it was my fault. Because I knowingly put myself in a negative situation and didn't really try to move out or anything. MY fault. No picking and choosing because of minor details like she's a woman or alcohol was involved. She went into a stupid situation and got hurt. Tough shit.

That's what happens. It's called taking personal responsibility.

And yeah, I use this crap. Someone's going to contradict me here, but then later they'll have a completely different view and I'm gonna throw it back in your face. That's how it works, because I win.

[dendawg]

That's how it works, because I win.

Well, I guess that's it then. Better close the thread because our messiah has spoken.