Unsure of a title - sue happy society, stupid mothers, and some other stuffs (LONG)

[lupo pazzesco]

I got a phone call yesterday.

My mother was calling and ended up telling me about some stuff that happened on Monday where she works. She and my sister are both employees there, and apparently they were physically attacked. It turns out a mentally unstable guy, who is about 6'6, and easily 350 lbs (BIG guy), came into their store, went completely apeshit and started destroying things. He ended up destroying a lot of stock and fixtures and BENT metal shelving. Well, he also caught sight of my mother, sister and another CW of theirs who's also a family friend. He attacks family friend first. Punches her in the face, and shoves her back hard enough to send her flying back and on her ass. She manages to crawl away and go sprinting for help.

Well, Guy starts destroying more stuff, mom and sister are trying to get out and see a shelf falling on them. They throw out their arms to catch it and stop it from injuring them. Guy catches sight of them and attacks them. He grabs my mother (5'3, MAYBE 110 lbs mind you), by the back of her head hard enough to shatter the hair clips she was wearing - plastic jaw clips - against her scalp. He then throws her to the ground and begins shaking her like a rag doll. She was shaken hard enough to be given whiplash, there are lumps on her scalp from the clip and bruises on her head. Not to mention overall bruising in general. My mom has fibromyalgia as it is, or something that's causing her chronic pain (don't know yet, doctors are doing all sorts of tests.) so you can imagine, this was probably so very extra painful and scary for her.

meanwhile, with his other hand, he grabs my sister (5'7, about 120 lbs) by the back of her neck, ripping her shirt in the process, and repeats the throw down and shake maneuver. My sister was shaken hard enough to end up with a sprained neck, and lots of bruising too. My whole family, we're the type that bruise easily if you look at us funny. Well, sister managed to break free by basically tearing the rest of her shirt off, then turns around half naked and attacks the guy to get him to let go of my mom.

Where was help you ask? There were 3 male managers there at this point. They watched, did NOTHING. When he finally broke his grip on my mom, one of them grabbed her and dragged her away and told her to get out. She butt scooted until she could crawl to another aisle, pick herself up and run to the break room with my sister, where they met family friend CW (who is also little, 5'6, about 120 lbs as well).

One male manager told my mom since they were by sporting goods he was considering grabbing a baseball bat and wading in...but didn't. In case he or his family sued.

...

Gets better from here. See, the males started talking to the guy and he calmed right down! Cool as you please, just chatted with them like nothing was wrong. Police had been called and they came in, and the KNEW this guy. Were all "hey, Nathan! Man, didn't we do this a couple weeks ago??"

Yeah, see, apparently Mentally unstable Guy had been in a psych ward for 6 days, two weeks prior for attacking 3 of his female teachers. Because he was diminished capacity, he didn't go to jail, he got institutionalized...that is until his mother came and got him out. She declared he DOESN'T need to be institutionalized, she'd rather he stay home with her. Except in the course of the attack, once my mom, sister, and friend were all out of sight, he attacked his own mother, bit down on her hand hard enough to tear a chunk out and cause her to bleed all over the place. So she doesn't think he should be locked up, but she's scared to death of him because he beats the shit out of her.

Now, Nathan walked out with the male officers and managers calmly, and only threw a fit when he saw the ambulance and was told he needed to get in it. He got strapped down and taken away.

The aftermath is a mess and I'm raging on the inside over so many different things, on various levels.

1. Why in the hell didn't anyone step in and STOP this guy!? Three male managers, who matched him better than my mom and sister stood around and would only "engage with words", because otherwise it's a lawsuit risk. One even admitted he wanted to get in there and start swinging, but couldn't because he and the company might be sued. On the one hand, thanks to this manager because he is the one who dragged mom out, but on the other, they left my mom and my sister to basically defend and free themselves. I'm actually kind of surprised THEY weren't told to stop fighting him because of lawsuit risks. My mother is in constant pain, and it's been worse since. My sister can't move her neck at ALL, and they're both feeling a bit traumatized about going back to work, to say the least. I mean, this isn't one of the standard risks you have to consider working RETAIL. Mom said she's now leery of approaching customers and asking if they need help (apparently how this all started), but is also leery because she'll get dinged for not doing her best to provide customer service.

2. The Guy's mother. wtf, bitch?? She's just as responsible for what happened to my mother!! Where in the fuck do you get off!?! He's diminished capacity, has a HISTORY of violence and you sign him out of the hospital because '"he doesn't NEED IT!" And the doctors and cops who KNOW this guy, there HAS to be something you can do, because his primary caregiver isn't doing jackshit!! She's endangering everyone, everywhere they go. no woman is safe, since he apparently hates anyone female!! How is this ok? How is this not preventable!? HOW? Gods, I just want to rage and hit something or someone and scream, but I can't DO anything.

3. I feel helpless. Mom and sister were attacked, were hurt, and I can't do ANYTHING. I know logically if I were there, I couldn't have done anything except get myself hurt, but you can damn well bet I wouldn't have hesitated to grab a baseball bat and start hitting this guy. Lawsuit be damned he was trying to kill my mother and my sister and our friend. I can't stand it that all I can do is sit here and cry, because my mom is in pain and afraid and my sister can't move her head without crying and I'm 800 miles away.

4. This gets even more personal. Mom didn't' tell me. In fact, she said she wasn't GONNA tell me, except yesterday was my gramma's birthday, and she asked if I was going to call her. I said yes, and then she was all "well, since you are, I guess I should tell you what happened in case Gramma mentions something..." So, was I EVER going to be told? Then she says I never call her, I"m always too busy with my boyfriend, and I slap right back at her because I'm not the only one obligated to pick up the phone. She knows how to call me. I got that load of guilt from my dad a LOT, I do NOT like it. It sets off bad memories.


So, all in all, I've been a little off kilter. Didn't sleep well last night, kept having nightmares. I"m just glad that fate worked it so my boyfriend has been here all week (his job sent him "out of town". To MY city) It's helped. And I just needed to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening, if nothing else, y'all. Didn't figure I could post this at CS.

[Rageaholic]

That is all I have to say about all this.

A giant psycho starts wailing on two employees and all the managers can think about is potential lawsuits?!

At this point, I wouldn't care how "mentally unstable" or what ever bullshit problem this monster has. He was clearly a THREAT and should be treated like one until contained (of course I don't know how I'd react, but lawsuits would be the least of my worries) Not only should he be commited, but so should his mother and the doctors who let him out. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!

I wish your mother and sister and speedy recovery and hopefully they will never have to deal with psychos like this.

[lupo pazzesco]

Yeah, see, near sporting goods is the gun rack. If I knew how to shoot, I'd have grabbed one of the shotguns and gone after this guy, I just wish someone had said "fuck the lawsuit, they have security tapes" and gone after him. Saved my mom and sister and our friend at least a LITTLE bit of suffering, if nothing else.

Thanks for the well wishes. I"ll pass them along.

[MaggieTheCat]

I don't know the laws, but I have a hard time believing that Nathan is the only person those managers should be worrying about a lawsuit from. Can't your mother/sister sue? If not the store, then Nathan himself? Even if they don't want the money, it might do something to prevent him from wandering the streets unsupervised to attack other women.

I hope your family has a speedy recover.

[HYHYBT]

First off, this is horrible, and first priority should have been (the first time around, but especially now) making sure Nathan cannot hurt anyone else, no matter what mommy says.

But I wouldn't have done anything either. Not for fear of lawsuit, but because I wouldn't know what to do that would be effective.

[bara]

Sounds like the guy has something against women if he calmed down once the women were out of site. Anyway, yeah dude needs to be locked up or medicated or something. (Im not going to even mention worse case scenarios here)

Honestly, it seems to me that your mom and sis have a more than legitmate lawsuit against both him and his mom. It might seem harsh, but if she can that easily sign him out then she needs to be removed as his primary care giver then she shouldnt be his primary care giver.

I can understand how a mother wouldnt want her son locked up, but she obviously cant control him.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Surely your mother is pressing charges? And has gone to the doctor's? Clearly, Nathan's family needs to pay some medical bills. You can't just walk around assaulting people and not be held accountable, I don't care how mentally incompetent you are.

[BlaqueKatt]

Surely your mother is pressing charges? And has gone to the doctor's? Clearly, Nathan's family needs to pay some medical bills. You can't just walk around assaulting people and not be held accountable, I don't care how mentally incompetent you are.

yes this, as it has now been proven that Nathan is a danger to others and his caregiver cannot control him, the court can intervene and possibly appoint him a guardian that will actually help him, rather than say "he doesn't need it".

If they balk, ask them to not do it for themselves but to spare his next possible victim, which may be a child, teenager, physically disabled or pregnant woman.

And the doctors and cops who KNOW this guy, there HAS to be something you can do, because his primary caregiver isn't doing jackshit!! She's endangering everyone, everywhere they go. no woman is safe, since he apparently hates anyone female!! How is this ok? How is this not preventable!? HOW?

how, because I'm guessing so far no one has done much, the teachers would be limited in what they can and cannot do(especially if they teach those with violent tendencies, various psychological disorders), and likely people "feel sorry for him" because "it's not his fault".

One would have to know the Civil commitment laws in the state where the assaults occurred.

[SkullKing]

I don´t know what to say.

I agree that Nathan ´s family should pay the bills as well as emotional damages.

I am not so appalled that Nathan did what he did. some people are sick and need all the help they can get.

However, the guys not helping? That is appalling. not to mention cowardly.


And I am very sorry if this sounds insensitive, but could it be that the guys simply don´t like your family?

[AdminAssistant]

Lupo, I want you to understand that I'm very sorry that your mother and sister were attacked, and I wish them a speedy recovery. I also hope that the attacker is soon put away in a padded room with lots of sedatives. However the notion that the managers should have jumped into the fight simply because they were men is frankly sexist. Could they have done more? Probably. But I don't blame anyone who sees a mentally unstable freak destroying everything and decides to run in the other direction. Put the blame where it belongs - on the attacker.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm sorry, but three men (or okay, let's take the onus off men) three PEOPLE who are larger and maybe more physically capable, standing around while smaller, more vulnerable people are brutally beaten in front of them?

And then say they were afraid of being sued?

Pussies. Cowardly, dickless pussies. They shouldn't have jumped in "because they were men" (because they clearly weren't, in this case). They should have jumped in because they were more capable, and stronger, and a grievous wrong was unfolding before them. Because someone could very well have lost their life while they stood around doing nothing. They basically decided that they'd rather have three co workers die in front of them than risk maybe being sued.

Although I call horseshit on that. They knew there were security cameras. They're not going to get sued for restraining a violent attacker who was assaulting three women. That's what they said, but that's not why they stood there with their thumbs up their flaccid, hairless assholes.

They stood there with their thumbs up their asses because they're a bunch of no-balls having, pussiefied, sorry excuses for men. Their daddies must be so proud.

What if the attacker was a woman, and the pussies standing around watching were women, and the victims were children? Would that still be okay?

[Andara Bledin]

1) They're flat out cowards. They didn't think about lawsuits: they thought about this big, violent guy hurting them. I'm a pacificst, but even I have used physical force against a larger assailant in the defense of a smaller, less able person. There were three of them. If I were any of the assailed, I'd make a point of wearing clothing that exposed the bruises and giving them glares any time I had to be in their presence.

2) Go after her. Her son may get off for being out of his mind, but she isn't. She's the one that unleashed him on the world at large. She's the primary caregiver, therefore she is responsible for his actions, much as any parent can be taken to court for the actions of a minor child. This coward needs to both lose custody and to pay for all of the damage to the store and the people he attacked. It makes no difference why he attacked anyone; all that matters is that he was in a place where he was not a danger to society and she chose to remove him from that place.

Afraid I can't offer much on the rest. You're a good person, Lupo, and I'm sorry that you can't be there with them to offer what comfort you can provide and that your need to avoid your father leaves you out of contact because your mother won't initiate.

However the notion that the managers should have jumped into the fight simply because they were men is frankly sexist.

It's not sexist to know that men have far more upper body strength by size than women. It's also not sexist to note that at least one and probably all three of the men who stood there and watched are much closer in size to their attacker than any of the victims.

But I don't blame anyone who sees a mentally unstable freak destroying everything and decides to run in the other direction.

But they didn't run. They stood there and watched. The only action that seems to have been taken by any of the three was to pull her mother away when he lost his grip on her.

And one of them thought about grabbing a bat and defending them, but was too worried about getting sued to help. That sounds more like an excuse for his own inaction than a real reason. And if it is really the reason he didn't, then he's a sociopath instead of a coward.

^-.-^

[RecoveringKinkoid]

1) . And if it is really the reason he didn't, then he's a sociopath instead of a coward.

^-.-^

Add in "shrivel-dicked, yellow bellied, no spine having, family disgracing" to "coward" and I agree with you completely.

[bainsidhe]

I really don't mean to defend 3 guys standing and watching while employees were getting the crap beaten out of them, BUT I'm not sure I would've done different. I've never been in such a surprising and violent situation and I'm pretty sure I would freeze up with a thousand thoughts running through my mind. Granted, I'm a weak-ass woman who'd get my ass beaten so I'd be terrified as well, but anyway I'd still freeze up. Unless it was family of course. I doubt I'd even pause before attacking if someone tried to hurt my family.

In my opinion, your family should hire a lawyer. Firstly because your sister and mom are going to need workman's comp for their physical trauma and possibly emotional trauma as well. Those I know who've had to claim workman's comp have always been shafted unless they hired a lawyer to fight on their behalf. I also feel they should sue the offender and his mother for causing this situation. And lastly, a lawyer will encourage the store to review their policies to protect their employees and will also encourage HR/management to relocate mom/sis to a position that places them out of the range of fire.

I'm really sorry this happened and I wish your family and friend a quick mend. I'm also sorry your mom didn't tell you what happened, I'm sure that feels very hurtful. Best of luck to you and yours.

[blas87]

I'm so sorry, lupo! I hope your mother and sister recover quickly!

I'm not sure of how your guys' finances are, hopefully you can muster something up to press charges or get something back.

At any rate, he better be locked in a padded room and not let out. This guy is a danger to society. Hell, this just gives me another reason to save up and get a gun.