Software License Agreements

[HYHYBT]

...but I'll get to that in a moment, because first I want to complain a while about what got me to thinking of them in the first place.

Dad's office recently had to replace three computers. The hard drives had to be destroyed, but one of the computers is going to his grandchildren. I've put in a spare drive and reinstalled Windows from the restore disc that came with the machine when it was new... but it won't recognize its own, original, internal, ethernet card which was working perfectly up until the computer was shut down four days ago. Claims there's no driver for it on the CD, and wants to search the internet to find one. (And, of course, if it could do that, it wouldn't NEED to.)

Off to Dell's site, which needs either a special code (I found what looked like one, but they wouldn't take it) or the model number. Unfortunately, the ONLY model number on the machine is "DHM." And DHM is not one of the way too many choices on their site. Searching Google, I find some message board or other answering a similar problem with a link to download from Intel... turns out the only thing I can find there that could possibly be any use since I DON'T HAVE A MODEL NUMBER is downloading a whole CD's worth and hoping it's in there. The CD is listed as being 103 MB, but the download repeatedly quits at 2 or 3 claiming to be finished.

Which has given me time to look through the license agreement, still on the screen. And what I see puzzles me. Why on earth would device drivers, which can be downloaded by anyone, anonymously, for free, as many times as they wish, and which are useless without the matching hardware anyway, come with a license warning not to make copies? Why would they even care, other than not having to supply bandwidth if someone only downloads once?

[Fire_on_High]

Legal boilerplate, I suspect.

Silly question...you don't specifically say onboard, so I'm going to assume it may not be...did you check to be sure the card didn't get unseated when the machine was moved? Is it showing up in Device Mangler at all?

Obviously if it's finding the hardware and just not the drivers, then you're on the right track.

[HYHYBT]

It is indeed onboard, not a card. I found a very simple solution shortly after posting, and feel like an idiot for not thinking of it sooner.

I hadn't destroyed the old drive yet, and it contained a working system, so I cheated and copied the drivers folder off of that.

(There's nothing bad on them; it's just that they *might* have patient info in there someplace. I believe it rational to assume, however, that it wouldn't be located in the drivers folder.)

I also found a more useful model number somewhere obvious that I hadn't thought to look: the little ring around the power button. Though it was half worn off, it would have narrowed things down quite a bit. Silly me, I was looking on the tag on the side of the computer where it claims to list model number, serial number, etc.

Which just leaves me wondering, besides the question about the license agreement, why it never asked for the registration key for Windows (which is conveniently printed on the top of the case). Not that I'm complaining! And it did go through all the updates, including a couple that claimed to be checking whether it was a "genuine" copy or not.

[insertNameHere]

Can we add in the User Agreements that Sony keeps pushing on PlayStation owners which basically state they can spy on you whenever you want, and you give them the right to activate a remote kill switch if they detect any "unauthorized software", even if it is something that allows you to access a feature that they decide to remove.

Most people do not read software agreements and they contain some pretty scary stuff sometimes, but it really comes down to if you need the program you nee the program. Of course sometimes like with a standard copy of office, you learn your entitled to one desktop and a laptop to install it on (this was way before the "home and student" edition where it clearly listed 3 PC license) I actually find dell's site somewhat useful as long as you know to avoid the driver download manager and select their direct download option, of course it is always best to find the service tag which locates the exact drivers you need instead of guesswork through the model line.

And as far as not needing a serial key on the restore, it is because the restore disks use a special OEM version of windows that detects the motherboard is a special dell version and typically also does an auto activation.

[Ginger Tea]

Some coutries deem EULA's unenforceable, so even if they had a clause saying you owe them your first born child you can say "come try to get him/her, my countries law will back me up in telling you to legaly sex and travel."

[insertNameHere]

Ginger brings up a good point. I remember back in the day when Pirate Bay had a letter from the RIAA or MPAA I can't remember which stating cited the US code against copyright infringement and they MUST comply and remove copyrighted material. Their response was basically, sorry we are in a different country and so are our servers so there is nothing you can do!!!!

Another thing that pissed me the fuck off is you generally can't get the EULA until AFTER you open the box and go to install it. Also known as the point no store will take back software for a refund because you have now viewed the key or possibly already installed it.... so your stuck being out money or selling your first born.

[Ginger Tea]

Another thing that pissed me the fuck off is you generally can't get the EULA until AFTER you open the box and go to install it. Also known as the point no store will take back software for a refund because you have now viewed the key or possibly already installed it.... so your stuck being out money or selling your first born.

Which is why, I think its Germany, they tell people where to go regarding EULA's, no other product that I can think of has anything that is vital to finding out its suitability without opening it first, everything else has enough info on the box or as a picture to get the idea if it is good for you or not.
A wardrobe will list the dimentions on the box so you know how big it is, so you cant say "it's smaller/bigger than I thought"*

*ok bad example, CS.com probably has a dozzen threads over the years where people cant imagine how big something is or damn well measure where it is going to see if it fits before buying it.

Lets not forget alot of TOS get changed long after you originally click on the I agree buton Sony and the PS3/PSN being the most notorious and easy to remember, but they are not alone.

[lordlundar]

Which has given me time to look through the license agreement, still on the screen. And what I see puzzles me. Why on earth would device drivers, which can be downloaded by anyone, anonymously, for free, as many times as they wish, and which are useless without the matching hardware anyway, come with a license warning not to make copies? Why would they even care, other than not having to supply bandwidth if someone only downloads once?

Most likely it's a generic EULA or one they have for another piece of marketed software that they just changed the references to and slapped in.

The thing is, the real issue isn't with the TOS or EULA. Most of the time it's used as a defense mechanism to prevent people from slapping a frivolous lawsuit and wasting time and money. The new PSN agreement which states that class action lawsuits cannot be filed are an example (btw, the information is very clear in that it only prohibits class action lawsuits. Anything else is fair game) Depending on the wording and standing laws, such TOS/EULAs might not even be enforceable.

The real issue is that companies are being vindictive and treating the customers like either stupid sheep or some grand enemy that they must quash. So a lot of the TOS/EULAs have an insane number of provisions that grant (often illegal) allowances to the company and restrict the consumer. It becomes a scare tactic, nothing more because they claim that you agreed to the EULA you can't sue them. Courts have already proven that if it breaches standing laws, the document is worthless.

[HYHYBT]

of course it is always best to find the service tag which locates the exact drivers you need instead of guesswork through the model line

Yeah, I put that in first. The site didn't recognize it.

The funny thing is, I was in a hurry to get it all set up before they left so they could take it with them... and it turns out there's not room in the car. So here it stays until either they come back up or someone from here is going down.

There ought, just in case, to be a law that these things can only address the allowed use of their product. (And that, if they make changes, they mark clearly what the changes are rather than having you go through pages and pages of unchanged material and never find for certain what minor point was altered.) Sure, other provisions may be thrown out if they try to enforce them... but they might not. And sooner or later, someone will bury "by installing this software, you agree to sign over your house and 50% of all your lifetime income" in the middle of one for a minor bug fix and a judge will uphold it because you're supposed to read through what you sign.

[lordlundar]

And sooner or later, someone will bury "by installing this software, you agree to sign over your house and 50% of all your lifetime income" in the middle of one for a minor bug fix and a judge will uphold it because you're supposed to read through what you sign.

1) TOS/EULAs are NOT a legally binding contract, despite what the company wants you to think. They do these up to try to scare people from filing a lawsuit, but the only time I've seen the terms enforced is when it's conventional terms for regular use.

2) The Consumer Protection Act would automatically render such a term illegal and unenforceable. There have already been terms that reach beyond regular use being put into such documents (usually a "we reserve the right to spy on everything in your system" style) that have gone before a court and declared such.

3) One company actually did put something similar in their EULA (it was reward for $10,000) to see if anyone read it. Anyone that contacted them about it within a particular time period was given a full return on their money (aka got the game free) plus the $10,000 promised.