The NHTSA, being paid off, blaming owners etc....

[HEMI6point1]

Remember the Toyota fiasco? Well apparently, the NHTSA is at it again, blaming owners.

Link: http://jalopnik.com/5870025/nhtsa-gr...-investigation

The short version is that Ford installed 6-speed manual transmissions in the GT models of the Mustang that were made in China. Said transmission began to break in alarmingly high numbers.

Here are videos of one owner and his tails of woe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhadvWIX6o and www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPmY2awSCsM

So what does the NHTSA conclude? Obviously paid off by Ford, they concluded that the failures were caused by abusive owners and people who were modifying the cars. Um, hello?! It's a Mustang GT, of course people are going to modify them and sometimes drive them hard!

As a car enthusiast, this is so bogus that the owners of these cars are being blamed for a transmission that is shoddily built by non-caring chinese people making 1 dollar an hour. In other words, if you want a V8 mustang with a decent transmission you either have to spend more money on the GT500 which includes the vastly better Tremec or go automatic. All because Ford doesn't want to admit they nickel and dimed on a car that can go upwards of $40K.

PS in case you were wondering about the Toyota thing: The drive-by-wire software would randomly freeze up in the wide open position. Toyota paid off the NHTSA to say that the issue was caused by people mistaking the gas for the brake pedal. WTF? Please note that anyone who says that's not true, I'll call out as a brainwashed Toyota-loving slug. That's no way that all those people mistook the gas for the brake....

[chozoghost79]

It's a regular manual transmission and they screwed that up?! Maybe we could expect problems with their dual clutch transmissions on other Fords (but that shouldn't happen either), but not this manual.

[BlaqueKatt]

The short version is that Ford installed 6-speed manual transmissions in the GT models of the Mustang that were made in China. Said transmission began to break in alarmingly high numbers

which is of course why the NHTSA only got 32 complaints

So what does the NHTSA conclude? Obviously paid off by Ford, they concluded that the failures were caused by abusive owners and people who were modifying the cars. Um, hello?! It's a Mustang GT, of course people are going to modify them and sometimes drive them hard!....

so a stock vehicle is supposed to be manufactured with all the bells and whistles for any possible modification? I guess that's why the crown vic didn't come with a stock and a police package.

Funny how the exact same transmission is stock in both the toyota supra and the mini cooper without issue....

of course one of the complainers is a guy, who openly admits to racing and abusing his vehicle, but it's not his fault, a stock vehicle built to drive at normal speeds should be made to handle excessive abuse , because the manufacturers and designers should be psychic(which is why ford has never promoted the vehicle's capabilities-yes it can go from 0-60 in 4.6 seconds, but ford does not mention that ANYWHERE, because they did not build it to withstand that, it is not "normal driving conditions"). This is why we have warnings on hair dryers that they shouldn't be used in the shower. Apparently we now need them on cars, "this vehicle was manufactured to operate under normal city driving conditions, anything outside of normal driving conditions or modifications may result in undesired results." Oh wait the owner's manuals and warranties usually DO say that, but obviously it doesn't apply to mustangs

As a car enthusiast, this is so bogus that the owners of these cars are being blamed for a transmission that is shoddily built by non-caring chinese people making 1 dollar an hour. ....

hmmm Getrag supplies more than just ford(including General Motors, Daimler AG, Ferrari, Fiat, Porsche, BMW (Mini), Toyota and the Volkswagen Group), and many of the ford transmissions are built in mexico as well-do we have something racist to say about those workers as well. Maybe the AMERICAN designers, or the AMERICAN accountants who are charged by the profit-driven AMERICAN execiutives with cutting costs should share the blame with the "non-caring chinese".

PS in case you were wondering about the Toyota thing: The drive-by-wire software would randomly freeze up in the wide open position. Toyota paid off the NHTSA to say that the issue was caused by people mistaking the gas for the brake pedal. WTF? Please note that anyone who says that's not true, I'll call out as a brainwashed Toyota-loving slug. That's no way that all those people mistook the gas for the brake....

I dislike all cars, so I won't fall for your preemptive ad hominem argument#(due to the ford pinto debacle-paying off death claims was deemed more cost effective than than the $3 fix in the design flaw that would cause the car to explode when hit from behind), but the "drive by wire" malfunction has yet to be proven+(though mechanical failure was proven, and addressed- accelerator pedal becoming worn and sticking, they admitted to that, but just keep believing they blamed it all on driver error*)-and considering the National Academy of Sciences, and NASA were doing the testing for the NHTSA were they "paid off as well"? Pretty large payoff conspiracy there with no proof.

And "all those people" amounts to 132, and a lot of the vehicles showed signs of mechanical failure(worn accelerator pedal, that could stick). so out of 8,000,000 cars, it isn't unreasonable to believe 132 made errors, considering "driver error" accounts for more crashes PER DAY than 132.

*

In conducting their report, NASA engineers evaluated the electronic circuitry in Toyota vehicles and analyzed more than 280,000 lines of software code for any potential flaws that could initiate an unintended acceleration incident. At the Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland, NASA hardware and systems engineers rigorously examined and tested mechanical components of Toyota vehicles that could result in an unwanted throttle opening.

*

The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago – “sticking” accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats – remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents. Toyota has recalled nearly 8 million vehicles in the United States for these two defects.

+

Ghosts can't be proved or disproved. Same with a software glitch. From this moment Toyota accidents may be blamed on a ghostly software glitch. The ghost is such a worry because it may be impossible to find, thus impossible to fix. Or it might be terribly expensive to fix. Worst, it might not exist. All the accidents may actually be driver error. So it can never be found but will haunt a carmaker forever.

#and it is an ad hominem-you're saying that no matter the facts someone brings up, they are a "toyota loving slug", simply because they oppose your stance-that is the very definition of ad hominem, you say nothing about the facts that have yet to be presented, but you insult the person presenting them. Your argument is invalid, due to a logical fallacy. especially as I detest all cars, I'm a cyclist. FYI- only two cars I've ever owned(never drove them, no driver's license), were a 1980 toyota corrola(purchased in 1996, needed a clutch fork), and a 1976 Ford Maverick(purchased in 1998, for my mom).

[AdminAssistant]

Know why I like Toyota? First of all, my (very) old Camry still runs like a champ. Secondly, those evil foreign automakers employ a LOT of folks in this country. I read somewhere that your average Toyota/Nissan/Honda/Hyundai contains a greater percentage of parts manufactured in the USA than a Ford/Chevy/GMC. Most of the cars are put together here, too. True, the factories are in 'right-to-work' states with no union protection for workers. But seeing what the auto industry collapse did to the entire state of Michigan...I'm not seeing that as a bad thing.

[protege]

I guess that's why the crown vic didn't come with a stock and a police package.

Actually, Ford does offer the "police" package on the Crown Vic...but it's not available to civilians, unless you find one at auction

of course one of the complainers is a guy, who openly admits to racing and abusing his vehicle, but it's not his fault, a stock vehicle built to drive at normal speeds should be made to handle excessive abuse

Exactly. It always amazes the hell out of me, how some people will beat the living shit out of their vehicles...and then turn around and bitch when something breaks. Also, many (if not all) modifications done to vehicles...usually fall in the "this will void your warranty" category. There's a reason that category exists--so people don't fuck with the vehicle, and then blame the manufacturer for their mistake.

And "all those people" amounts to 132, and a lot of the vehicles showed signs of mechanical failure(worn accelerator pedal, that could stick).

Of the millions of cars that Toyota sells each year, 132 is a tiny percentage of them. That might be why the company was reluctant to do anything. Plus, it could have been difficult to recreate the problem, since they weren't initially sure what was causing it. I can't count the time I've had one of my cars at the garage, tried to describe the problem...and the mechanic isn't able to find it. But, when the shit hit the fan, Toyota *did* pay a huge fine. Is that the "payoff" referred to by the OP?

Even though I've owned a couple of Toyotas, including an '07 Corolla...which was recalled, I've had no problems with them. My '07 didn't do anything, but since it was in for a 50,000 mile service, the shop did the recall bit as well. Car was operating fine before then.

[BlaqueKatt]

Actually, Ford does offer the "police" package on the Crown Vic...but it's not available to civilians, unless you find one at auction

I know, sarcasm-I worked at a parts counter, stock parts wouldn't work on the "police package", which is also used by cab companies.

But, when the shit hit the fan, Toyota *did* pay a huge fine. Is that the "payoff" referred to by the OP?

48.8 million in fines, plus there is this conspiracy which has more credence to it. UAW lobbying congress to put the screws to toyota.

One might think this is the first auto recall in decades from the way government officials and Congressional Committees have pounced on Toyota. However, as recent as last month, Honda announced a recall of 646,000 Fit models (or Jazz in some markets) due to a faulty master switch that could allow water to enter the electrical components resulting in fires. Ford, less than one year ago, was forced to recall more than 4 million cars based on 550 vehicle fires. The recall concerned cruise-control deactivation switches that were installed in 16 million Fords. Part of the recall included nearly 1.1 million 1995-2003 Ford Windstar family van models.

so twice as many "american built quality union cars" and four times as many issues.

a few more articles on toyota vs american companies
toyota vs GM
toyota didn't need a bailout, UAW refused wage cuts costing employees jobs. UAW workers make an average of $69/per hour in wages and benefits(hourly wage is $27 average), toyota workers make an average of $48/per hour wages and benefits($30 hourly wage)

[Andara Bledin]

so twice as many "american built quality union cars" and four times as many issues.

The best part about the Ford cruise control switch for the Explorers is that they previous had the exact same recall on one of their sedans for the exact same part. And I still don't understand why on earth a swtich that is only useful when the car is in operation is live when the car is off.

And even then, they still fought against the idea that a known faulty installation was at fault until the death toll included a little girl and somebody's granparent.

But this is what is wrong with corporations buying the goverment - fighting legal battles and paying the fines costs less than simply making the products safe to begin with.

^-.-^

[BlaqueKatt]

The best part about the Ford cruise control switch for the Explorers is that they previous had the exact same recall on one of their sedans for the exact same part. And I still don't understand why on earth a swtich that is only useful when the car is in operation is live when the car is off.

And even then, they still fought against the idea that a known faulty installation was at fault until the death toll included a little girl and somebody's granparent.

yup,

American company=keep churning out defective vehicles, because we have the government in our back pocket, and we need our profits(see ford pinto link above-they knew it would kill people, from their own testing but didn't care)

evil foreign company=holy crap, shut down production totally until we fix this!

I also find it interesting that toyota allows ANY employee to shut down the line if they see/suspect a problem.

[Andara Bledin]

I also find it interesting that toyota allows ANY employee to shut down the line if they see/suspect a problem.

It's a very Japanese production concept. Empower the employees and you get better workers who do better work. They become important to the company as more than merely line workers, and thus, will invest more of their own interst into the company's well-being. I'd like to see more of this make it's way into American industry.

^-.-^

[HEMI6point1]

Keep in mind that those 32 complaints being sent to the NHTSA are just a small fraction of the actual reported incidents. Just like how most people who have issues with a business are not going to go and complain to the BBB.

On a mustang enthusiast forum a thread swelled to over 3,000 posts of people who had issues with this transmission.

Please don't say this is the owner's fault. The American-made Tremec in the GT500 (a car that takes much more abuse than most GT's) is rock solid and most people never have an issue. And to the person who compared the Mustang to the Mini... different applications. One is a small 4-cylinder Vs a large V8.

And before you ask, many of them kept their cars stock other than maybe an intake and exhaust, and didn't race them. Last I heard, those addons don't cause transmissions to fail.

And as far as Toyota, if you're saying that the drive-by-wire software issue was "false," then you haven't heard about an incident in Cali by a mechanic who took a Tocoma on a random test drive on the freeway for a customer. He purposely left the floormats out of the truck for this. As he was driving 75mph the truck suddenly started accelerating to 95mph and wouldn't stop. He had to jam the truck in neutral and shut the engine off to get it to stop.

Toyota also lost me with their handling of the situation. They told people the issue was caused by the wrong floormats. Then they told customers that if your car was made in Japan and not the USA you weren't effected (A total slap in the face to their US factory workers). Then they said that it was caused by people mistaking the gas for the brake. Kinda of like Audi in the 80's.

And for the record, older Toyota's seem to not be effected by this. Only the newer models.

[mikoyan29]

Know why I like Toyota? First of all, my (very) old Camry still runs like a champ. Secondly, those evil foreign automakers employ a LOT of folks in this country. I read somewhere that your average Toyota/Nissan/Honda/Hyundai contains a greater percentage of parts manufactured in the USA than a Ford/Chevy/GMC. Most of the cars are put together here, too. True, the factories are in 'right-to-work' states with no union protection for workers. But seeing what the auto industry collapse did to the entire state of Michigan...I'm not seeing that as a bad thing.

Aspects of Toyota, Hyundai, Honda and a few others are designed here. Denso (which is a large Japanese suppier) has a pretty large presence here.

[HEMI6point1]

I have a Hyundai Sonata. I ended up choosing it over a Ford Fusion. Why? The Hyundai was made here in the US while the Ford is made in Mexico. The only time I'll buy a car if it's not made here is if it's made in Canada.

[BlaqueKatt]

Please don't say this is the owner's fault. The American-made Tremec in the GT500 (a car that takes much more abuse than most GT's) is rock solid and most people never have an issue. And to the person who compared the Mustang to the Mini... different applications. One is a small 4-cylinder Vs a large V8.

so you're saying that because the transmission is the exact same in the mini, the mustang, and the toyota supra(which is a high-performance 6 cylinder turbocharged engine), it's not the driving-gotcha.

And as far as Toyota, if you're saying that the drive-by-wire software issue was "false," then you haven't heard about an incident in Cali by a mechanic who took a Tocoma on a random test drive on the freeway for a customer. He purposely left the floormats out of the truck for this. As he was driving 75mph the truck suddenly started accelerating to 95mph and wouldn't stop. He had to jam the truck in neutral and shut the engine off to get it to stop.

and leaving the floormats out proves it was the software and not a worn accelerator pedal sticking(mechanical failure, which was found as a reason for the acceleration), exactly how? It just proves it wasn't the floormats.

[HEMI6point1]

so you're saying that because the transmission is the exact same in the mini, the mustang, and the toyota supra(which is a high-performance 6 cylinder turbocharged engine), it's not the driving-gotcha.

The transmission in the Mini is a different unit than the one installed in the Mustang GT. One's for front drive, one's for rear-drive.

Like I said before, thousands of people had the same complaints on Mustang forums and other enthusiast sites. They can't all be beating up on their cars....

and leaving the floormats out proves it was the software and not a worn accelerator pedal sticking(mechanical failure, which was found as a reason for the acceleration), exactly how? It just proves it wasn't the floormats.

Sorry, but that sounds very similar to the apologists who defended Audi during their unattended acceleration issue in the '80's. Like the Toyota scandal, they tried to blame everything but the real issue at hand.

[Hyena Dandy]

Sorry, but that sounds very similar to the apologists who defended Audi during their unattended acceleration issue in the '80's. Like the Toyota scandal, they tried to blame everything but the real issue at hand.

That in no way addresses her point.