CS posts full of OP ew suck.

[bara]

People are free to let a mod know if they think a thread might be out of place or made up. I think allowing the mods to handle it is the best way to go.

I believe the majority of the stories are true, they may very well be some embellishments, but rarely do I think someone is making up an entire story just to post on the CS forums. In my humble opinion, I have failed to see the suck in some of the threads. This could be nothing more than the fact that I do not live those peoples lives everyday.

People need to vent now and then, and if they are bombarded with advice or helpful tips when they are just trying to let off some steam then it could easily make it worse.

[Ree]

(I'd still love to know what *changed* that made that rule necessary when it, obviously, was unnecessary before.)

You've had that question answered numerous times, but you just don't want to accept the answer.

It's as if you think, if you ask it enough times, we will change the answer, or suddenly have an epiphany that we got it all wrong.

Once again, FTSTS came about because there was a sudden trend for the members to start questioning the posts.
We were getting PM's and reports from the OP's of the threads who were upset that they had just come to vent and their situation was being questioned.
They were being made to feel bad for even daring to post and complain.
We had members threatening to leave the site because they no longer felt welcome to post about their work situations.

We had people who worked as telemarketers who would come to vent, only to be told they were the worst scourge of society ever.

We had people who worked in gas stations venting about their customers who bitched about the prepay, only to be told that their customers had a valid complaint.

Cashiers would complain about the way the customers handled their coupons and receive a lecture on how they should be doing it and the customer was probably right to complain because it was confusing.

People were playing "devil's advocate" all over the place.
It was pissing people off.

You question why it suddenly changed when it was never like that before.
Obviously, the site came under new ownership.
I suspect that's what you're getting at with all the prodding and picking.

The former owner had a different vision of how he wanted the site to run.

The current owner paid damn good money to purchase the site, and he maintains it in the way he sees fit.

The membership today is not the same membership from 10 years ago.

When we initiated the FTSTS, I know I even said to the other mods that I could not ever recall a time on CS in all the years I had been a member, where we had such a problem with people calling others out over their posts.

I know I had pretty much stopped posting my sucky customer stories because I had posted 2 several months prior to the FTSTS being put in place, and in both cases, I was pretty much told there was nothing sucky about my customers, and it was explained to me how the customers were right and I was being nitpicky. (Not in exact words, but pretty much that sentiment.)

Then, as I said, the PM's and reports started, and we were at risk of losing some very good, long term, active members, as well as new members who joined, thinking they could share their stories, but were tired of the armchair critics.

So, yes, you're right.
At one time, it was not needed.
It is now.
Whether you feel it is or not, the owner and mods feel it is, and that should be enough.

I usually go with the one who pays the bills and has the finger on the server switch.

[linguist]

We must be doing something right, though.

i think the more telling stats would be what was the change in number of active members (positive or negative) after the changes were implemented?

i can't speak for anyone but myself, obviously, but i can say that the changes made cs a less welcoming place to me. it used to be one of my favorite sites, a daily (or several times daily) visit, but now i visit on average maybe once a month. part of it was ftsts, which made me feel i couldn't speak my mind. honestly, if i posted a situation where i thought someone was being sucky, but then an unbiased third party was able to point out where i could have done something differently to change the outcome, i'd welcome the feedback. if the site is supposed to be a place where retail workers can support and help each other, how is that supposed to happen when they can't tell me where i may have done something to bring the situation on myself, and how i can avoid a repeat in the future?

the other reason i stopped frequenting was that the mods seemed to get close-happy with any thread that showed even a hint of controversy. it made it difficult to get invested in any threads, knowing they could be closed down if a mod thought something was posted that might make someone think about the possibility of maybe becoming offended over. i'd get interested in threads, leave and come back only to find them closed, which became quite frustrating after it happened several times, and frankly made me wary of posting any of my own.

anyway, that's my take on it. of course, it's your site, and you're free to run it however you see fit. i just thought you should know, since the changes were made supposedly to keep from losing members, that the changes themselves have all but lost you at least one.

[blas87]

If you feel you can't speak your mind, then you must obviously just want to nitpick or challenge someone's post. Seems like an absolute to me, but really, the only people who really challenge FTSTS are the ones who would most likely get in trouble for tearing a person's post apart.

Look, I get that there are a few whiners on CS, and I'm not going to act like everyone is perfect. There's a few people who really should seek alternate employment. There are a few who think every customer is a bother, every question is a nag or an attack. The mods are most likely aware of that, and if not, it's not going to get YOU in trouble to report the post or nudge one of them or Raps.

If you feel hindered in such that you can't "speak your mind", there are all kinds of subjects reserved for this very site. If speaking your mind is going to hurt someone's feelings or make them want to not post as much, wouldn't that make you feel bad? Or just upset because the mean old mods don't want you pointing out or questioning every aspect of a post?

[Peppergirl]

the other reason i stopped frequenting was that the mods seemed to get close-happy with any thread that showed even a hint of controversy.

Well, with all due respect, that's not the point of the site. At all. That's also why the owner of the site paid good money to start *this* site. You know, one where controversy is not only allowed, but welcomed and encouraged.

It's unfortunate that you felt as though you had to leave CS because we didn't allow enough 'controversy', but we are certainly glad to have you here, since that's what Fratch is about.

[linguist]

If you feel you can't speak your mind, then you must obviously just want to nitpick or challenge someone's post.

i wasn't aware you were a mind reader. that must be awesome! also, +10 points for the irony of bitching about nitipicking and challenging someone's post while nitpicking and challenging someone's post.

Seems like an absolute to me, but really, the only people who really challenge FTSTS are the ones who would most likely get in trouble for tearing a person's post apart.

try again. never gotten in trouble, never been warned, never had a post deleted or a thread closed. the changes just made cs a much less welcoming place to me, and i'm clearly not the only one. it may have been an unintended consequence, but it was a consequence nonetheless.

If you feel hindered in such that you can't "speak your mind", there are all kinds of subjects reserved for this very site.

which is precisely why i spend the majority of my time here now rather than cs.

If speaking your mind is going to hurt someone's feelings or make them want to not post as much, wouldn't that make you feel bad?

why would i feel bad for tactfully and respectfully giving advice to avoid a repeat of the same situation in the future? as i said, that's exactly what i'd want.

Or just upset because the mean old mods don't want you pointing out or questioning every aspect of a post?

care to point out exactly where i've done this? you can't because it hasn't ever happened, at least on cs. here is another matter, but that's kind of the point of this board.

[blas87]

And that, my friends, is why that rule is in place. See how quick it snowballs?

I know I can.

[linguist]

Well, with all due respect, that's not the point of the site. At all. That's also why the owner of the site paid good money to start *this* site. You know, one where controversy is not only allowed, but welcomed and encouraged.

It's unfortunate that you felt as though you had to leave CS because we didn't allow enough 'controversy', but we are certainly glad to have you here, since that's what Fratch is about.

perhaps controversy was the wrong word choice. my point was that i'd seen threads allowed to go on for pages with no issue suddenly closed down because the mods were afraid of the direction it might head in.

And that, my friends, is why that rule is in place. See how quick it snowballs?

I know I can.

i'm trying to figure out exactly what you're talking about here. i posted, you answered, i answered in kind. that's kind of the point of a message board.

[blas87]

I acted sucky, you acted sucky back.

That could easily be any situation on CS. It's more than "You wrote, I responded"

There are millions of message boards online on virtually any subject. Most probably don't have as restrictive rules as the few here are complaining about. But as I said before, go free and find them, and tell me how much you like not having any moderators back you up or even listen to you period, because they are joining in on the bashing as much as the members are doing so out of control.

In fact, IIRC, some disgruntled CS members started a different site where there aren't as many rules and you're probably allowed to see the suck and constructive criticize away all you want.

Most importantly, if you've never received a slap on the wrist, what's your problem then? Really.

And I would like to see proof of where a page was instantly shut down, just for no reason. They have their reasons and rules and what's not allowed to be posted or linked.

[linguist]

There are millions of message boards online on virtually any subject. Most probably don't have as restrictive rules as the few here are complaining about. But as I said before, go free and find them, and tell me how much you like not having any moderators back you up or even listen to you period, because they are joining in on the bashing as much as the members are doing so out of control.

been there. some of them are quite fun, some not so much. it's a matter of the personalities involved.

Most importantly, if you've never received a slap on the wrist, what's your problem then? Really.

why do i have to have gotten in trouble to have a problem? why can't it simply be a case of being sad to see a place i used to love visiting turn into a place that i feel is unwelcoming?

And I would like to see proof of where a page was instantly shut down, just for no reason. They have their reasons and rules and what's not allowed to be posted or linked.

i'll have to do some research on that as i haven't paid much attention to cs in awhile, but i never said they were instantly shut down. in fact, if you'll read what i actually said, i never said they were closed for no reason, and i said they went on for several pages. then, usually they were closed with a note from the closing mod that was some variation on "you've all done an admirable job of staying respectful and keeping things friendly, but we're afraid this might veer into fratching territory, so we're shutting it down." the italicized section being the pertinent part, they closed the thread because of where it might go, not where it had already gone.

[blas87]

I would really like to hear how many people think CS isn't "fun" anymore because of the rules.

Wanna go back a page or two and see the stats that Ree posted?

Looks like quite a few people disagree with you.

[linguist]

I would really like to hear how many people think CS isn't "fun" anymore because of the rules.

Wanna go back a page or two and see the stats that Ree posted?

Looks like quite a few people disagree with you.

those stats are a snapshot of the moment they were retrieved, and don't really tell us anything. to get an accurate picture, you'd need to look at the number of active posters pre-rule change, and the number post-rule change, then take into account any adjustment necessary for new members. you'd also have to give your reading an appropriate timeframe to account for those who may have taken extended absences and then come back to the new rules, and to allow for time for the dissatisfaction of those who would eventually leave to reach critical mass.

also, once again, i never said i spoke for everybody. allow me to quote myself (with added bolding for emphasis):

i can't speak for anyone but myself, obviously, but i can say that the changes made cs a less welcoming place to me.

[blas87]

Can I ask how long you were active on CS?

I first joined in 2005, under Mr Slugger's ownership. Not that I think that he did a bad job, but CS was a much different place. Although, by the time I'd joined and established myself there, Raps had soon taken new ownership and not long after that, Fratch was also here.

Members who have been on CS many years longer than I can probably attest that it could get downright dirty sometimes.

[linguist]

Can I ask how long you were active on CS?

I first joined in 2005, under Mr Slugger's ownership. Not that I think that he did a bad job, but CS was a much different place. Although, by the time I'd joined and established myself there, Raps had soon taken new ownership and not long after that, Fratch was also here.

Members who have been on CS many years longer than I can probably attest that it could get downright dirty sometimes.

cs currently shows my join date as 7-7-2006, though i'm pretty sure i was on for at least two years, maybe three, before that and had to submit a new registration after a hack or some such. i do remember cs under mr. slugger, and honestly while in some ways things are better under current ownership, i felt a lot more free under mr. slugger's ownership, at least on cs. fratching's always been a different beast, and i've never felt restricted here in the least.

[bara]

the italicized section being the pertinent part, they closed the thread because of where it might go, not where it had already gone.

Easier to clean up a mess if you catch the plate before it falls to the floor.