"Mundanes"

[the_std]

To be honest, anakhouri, I don't believe it's the word that's the problem. I believe that it's the people who use it in a derogatory fashion. You could make up any word you wanted, and in the mouths of the people who want to feel superior over non-geeks, it will carry identical connotations and inflection.

[Andara Bledin]

To be honest, anakhouri, I don't believe it's the word that's the problem. I believe that it's the people who use it in a derogatory fashion.

Exactamundo!

The word is like a tool, in and of itself neutral in persuasion.

It's the people using it that give it inflection, nuance, power, tone, and imbue it with properties both positive and negative.

^-.-^

[Boozy]

I have a phrase I use, thank you very much, as indicated above. I'm just amazed no one else sees anything problematic about the term.

I agree with you, anakhouri.

"Mundane" means boring and unimaginative. You don't need to misinterpret that definition to find it derogatory, or use it in a very particular way to make it sound rude.

I'd invite anyone who disagrees with me to describe their boss's presentation, or friend's wedding, as "mundane" and let me know how that goes over.

[mikoyan29]

Just because someone doesn't like something that you like doesn't make them dull or uninteresting. Everyone has something that gives them passion. It's funny that the groups that often throw the labels like "mundanes" are the same groups that will bitch 2 minutes later because the other people don't appreciate what they like. Of course they don't see the irony in that.

[blas87]

I never realized until working with a few "geeks", just how rude, cliquish, and exclusive they can be. They can be just as bad as the "cool" kids in school were.

I mean, you can't even say you like Iron Man without getting asked 20 questions and accused of only liking it because of Robert Downey Jr, or Thor with Chris Hemsworth, blah blah blah.

I'm also not allowed to like Resident Evil because I don't play video games and therefore don't realize that Alice is lame and Leon is so much better and the movies just plain suck because of Alice and the games are so much better, and I'd only be able to like the movies if I watched the cartoon versions of them (whatever that's called). Those movies were just made for idiot sheep like me who just want their favorite movie stars to "destroy" the magic and awe of the video games.

[Jaden]

I straddle the line between geek and, err, "normalcy", so I know people in both circles, and some who are in the middle like me (those are the ones I get along with best). In other words, I may be able to name all the summons in Final Fantasy VII, but I also like to go out to the bar and have normal conversations about normal things as well. Some of the more hardcore geek friends of mine really get on my nerves with how elitist they seem, and how out of touch with reality they often are. On the other hand, I understand why they are that way, since, like me, they were often mocked a lot for their interests and so, as a defensive response, they sort of withdrew into their own cliques and started regarding others as outsiders. I withdrew as well, but in a different way. I'm not hostile towards people with other interests than me, nor am I floating out in space somewhere. I'm just really quiet.

Anyways, I don't really care if you like Iron Man because you've been reading the comics since you were 5 and you know all of the canon and you know to curse Marvel for what they did to Tony Stark during the Civil War story, or if you like Iron Man because you saw the movie and thought Robert Downey Jr. was hot. Who cares? People like what they like, and that's their prerogative. Quite frankly, I wish both groups of people would stop deriding each other for not being exactly like each other.

[Hyena Dandy]

I'm having trouble seeing it as that bad.

As a wrestling fan, I call someone who enjoys the show without looking into the background/reading the dirtsheets/etc a "Mark." Even though that comes from a term which means "Victim of a con." I'd also call someone who talks about the show on the forums a 'Smark' (smart-mark, they want to know the backstory but aren't involved in the production) and a person involved in some way in the industry a 'Smart.' That doesn't mean "People in the industry are better than people not in the industry."

My friend Paul is a Mark. He doesn't look up the backstories. He just watches what's on TV. He couldn't tell Colt Cabana from Necro Butcher. I don't think any less of him, but I would call him a Mark.

I'd be a Smark. I watch shoots, read blogs. I pay attention to the backstage politics. I see storylines through that lens. I see Santino and think "If he'd been given a better gimmick, he'd be the biggest guy in WWE."

My friend Chelsea is a Smart. She is married to an indie wrestler in Florida. She's friends with some people who work production in TNA. That doesn't mean that I think she's better than me, or she's better than Paul. It means she's more a part of the industry than I am.

While the term may come from something insulting, I'm not judging someone with it. It's a simple definition. It may not be described in the dictionary, but I'm not using it as an insult. I'm using it as a neutral descriptive term. That's how most geeks use "mundane" and most Harry Potter fans use "muggle."

It's not deriding anyone else.

Geeks are a subculture. Subcultures determine their own vocabulary and turns of phrase for use within the subculture. These both mark us as members to other members, and also allow us to describe concepts that are likely to come up in a shorter way.

As a brony, I may describe something as "becoming 20% cooler," to express that it's improved. Or, if talking about something I really love/don't care for, I may phrase it as "X is best/worst Y." Although that will be understood in casual conversation, it will also announce to a fellow brony (perhaps Duelist, or Greenday) that I am in the same group. I'll also have phrases that allow me to discuss a common concept, either by using a different word for it (Scootaloo = Chicken. Fluttershy = Tree. Forum troll/Otherwise unpleasant person = Parasprite) or by using a single word to refer to a common concept. I could call it "Making things into horse puns," but it's easier for me to say "Ponify."

Just like it's easier for me to say "Mark" than "Person who doesn't read dirtsheets and only watches wrestling for the stories."

It's human nature to create subcultures. Many of us, for example, would be members of the Customer's Suck subculture. Thus, we all know what someone means when they say "That woman was an EW," or "My co-irker." I recently described to a friend that a rapper I didn't like sounded like "MC Shake-and-Bake." You know what I meant. He wouldn't. That's because, as members of the subculture, we speak the same language.

We can also put negative meanings to a common word. If someone was to say "I got a call from Nunavut." We may interpret that as "Someone living northwestern Canada called me" but we could also interpret it as "This caller I had was insane!" Through that, a common phrase becomes an insult. It's not true that words have no more meaning than the speaker imparts them with. Certainly I wouldn't call Barack Obama a nigger, even if I WAS only trying to say he was black. The audience also matters. I need to use the words appropriate to the person listening.

We need to also consider the most common meaning/context. The problem arises, though, when you are asking that they meet the most common context outside the subculture. They should, especially for a word that isn't commonly used for something else, (I'd certainly rather be called 'mundane' than 'faggot',) match the vocabulary of the person you're talking to. The people in the fandom know exactly what's meant when they call someone 'mundane'. They know what you mean when someone else calls someone mundane.

If they call someone outside of the fandom a 'mundane' then they're probably being a prick. They're using fandom vocabulary to someone they know isn't a fan. That's elitist no matter what they mean. But to the people in the fandom, and the panelists were talking to their fellow fans, they're just using a term that's no more insulting than calling rain wet.

[Seshat]

(I'd certainly rather be called 'mundane' than 'faggot',)

What's wrong with calling you a bundle of firewood?

[Amanita]

In regards to how cliqueish some geeks can be, here's a story:
Here in town there's a lightsaber combat club that's been formed in the past year. Members do lightsaber demos and some of them cosplay to varying degrees.

Now, I'm a cosplayer with an impressive saber collection, and enough robes to outfit several Jedi. And maybe a sith as well. And I know how to use those sabers- single sword, staff, and dual wielding. Add to that the fact that I've built some sabers myself, and am learning more advanced wiring techniques, to incorporate fully customizable sound.

You would think I'd be a great fit for a group like the one here in town, right?

Well actually, no. I've asked to join (they are on facebook) and even sent the group leader a message explaining what I could offer the club. I've been pointedly ignored, for reasons I can only guess at.
I have no idea why. Do they have me mistaken for an exclusive cosplayer with no knowledge of how to actually use her saber? Or have they declared me some sort of wierdo after seeing what I dressed up as at the last convention?

In the words of a friend of mine, Anyone who starts a lightsaber club loses the right to call other people wierd.

[Andara Bledin]

Geeks are no more or less likely to be cliquish than any other segment of humanity. People are people no matter what their interests trend towards.

^-.-^

[Amanita]

It still sucks when it happens though. It`s like some people never left high school.

[Gravekeeper]

Those movies were just made for idiot sheep like me who just want their favorite movie stars to "destroy" the magic and awe of the video games.

Magic and awe of....what? Resident Evil's movies and games have utterly nothing to do each other. But they both have *awful* writing and acting. Its not like either one can hurl rocks at the other without breaking a few panes of glass. >.>

[Hyena Dandy]

It still sucks when it happens though. It`s like some people never left high school.

"The whole damn world is just as obsessed
With who's the best dressed, and who's having sex
Who gets the money, who gets the honeys
Who's kinda cute, and who's just a mess?"
And you still don't have the right look
And you don't have the right friends
And it's pretty much the same as it was back then
Highschool never ends."

-Bowling for Soup