Gang culture and racism

[Rapscallion]

What exactly is wrong with reclaiming a slur?

Hmm - I was born in Germany, and the word 'nazi' is used as a slur...

Idea! I'll try to reclaim that as a word! Admittedly, I won't last long in society, and my employment will be very short-lived, and pretty much every German around would hate me, but I'll reclaim a word and turn its usage around.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

Rapscallion

[lordlundar]

What exactly is wrong with reclaiming a slur?

To reclaim a slur, there has to be a point where the word wasn't a slur. This is not the case. That word has always been derogatory and insulting. As such, you can't positively reclaim a word that never had a positive meaning.

I certainly don't have any respect for the law, and given the way our prison industry and "justice" system treats AAs I don't see why any black people should either.

So, instead of trying to become a better person and affect changes in a positive way, it's better to carry high caliber weaponry and shoot on sight of a badge, despite who might be hurt? Nice idea. Looking to start a new civil war? good luck with that.

Maybe in your "hood," but it's incredibly insulting and racist to assume that your personal experiences with black people can be applied to an entire race.

Care to provide proof of pop-culture putting AA people in a positive light that they rally behind?? Because I can think of very few examples, and all of them are several years old. As well, how about history about black people positively affecting their race? Oops. Not February. Guess we have to wait 5 months before we start hearing them again. Funny, one month of everyone learning about the good things, 11 months hearing about the bad things.

I will grant that there are situations where these occur, and areas where they don't, but defending the actions instead of trying to change them simply does not help your case.

[anriana]

To reclaim a slur, there has to be a point where the word wasn't a slur.

Is this your own personal decree?

This is not the case. That word has always been derogatory and insulting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

As such, you can't positively reclaim a word that never had a positive meaning.

There isn't a definite origin for the word dyke; since we can't prove it's positive I guess LGBTs will have to stop using it.

Care to provide proof of pop-culture putting AA people in a positive light that they rally behind?? Because I can think of very few examples, and all of them are several years old. As well, how about history about black people positively affecting their race? Oops. Not February. Guess we have to wait 5 months before we start hearing them again. Funny, one month of everyone learning about the good things, 11 months hearing about the bad things.

So you're using your ignorance of black culture to justify your racist comments?

[CancelMyService]

I have been flamed and had my meaning misconstrued before when mentioning this, but I will risk doing so again: It's amazing how threads like these tend to reveal how people really feel about issues of race. For every person making rational points and trying to maintain civility, there's like 2-3 people who seemingly are upset they can't go around freely dropping n-bombs.

Not singling anyone in particular out, but like Chris Rock said, "that train's never late".

[Rapscallion]

I suspect I'm in that 2-3 people. I don't particularly want to freely drop a n-word. However, I don't really want anyone else doing so either.

As Bill Cosby said once on US national TV, "The only way to stop racism is if I don't call you a white man and you don't call me a black man." The n-word is associated only with the colour of one's skin. The current thinking seems to be that only black people can use it. Considering its history, I don't want anyone using it. It segregates, and that's not what equality is all about.

Rapscallion

[lordlundar]

Is this your own personal decree?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger

There isn't a definite origin for the word dyke; since we can't prove it's positive I guess LGBTs will have to stop using it.

Let's hit these one at a time:

1. The definition of reclaim as appropiate to this discussion: "To bring back, as from error, to a right or proper course; reform." So no, not by my "decree" as you put it, but by definition.

2. please explain how the word at ANY point in history did not equate to a second class citizen based on colour? Even if the word itself was not directly derogatory, it still has no relation to anything positive.

3. Gee, great example there. Except for one point. Where in history was that used as an acceptable justification for slavery, abuse, or murder? Name me a point in history where simply saying "she's a dyke" allowed you to get away with killing them. There is a considerable difference between a word that insultingly refers to sexual orientation that is used as a badge of honour by those insulted and a word that brings with it a history of slavery, abuse, and murder being acceptable because of the reference.

So you're using your ignorance of black culture to justify your racist comments?

No, I'm saying that teaching people what they can be regardless of colour would provide a better influence than drumming it into people's heads that they are in the situation they are in because of their colour. Use the lessons of the past to avoid it, not use it as an excuse to not try to improve.

At this point I want, in proper context, the exact words which proves me a racist. Or are you simply going to use the approach that because I'm part german, have blond hair and blue eyes makes me a racist by association? I also noticed that you cut out the parts where I called you out on encouraging attacking innocent people instead of trying to improve oneself and that defending the actions and attitudes that create the strife as opposed to trying to change them simply allows the negative to continue.

You might want to give Sharpton a call, he can always use people who can abuse context as badly as you for his anti-white propaganda.

[CancelMyService]

I suspect I'm in that 2-3 people. I don't particularly want to freely drop a n-word. However, I don't really want anyone else doing so either.

As Bill Cosby said once on US national TV, "The only way to stop racism is if I don't call you a white man and you don't call me a black man." The n-word is associated only with the colour of one's skin. The current thinking seems to be that only black people can use it. Considering its history, I don't want anyone using it. It segregates, and that's not what equality is all about.

Rapscallion

For the record, you weren't one of the 2 or 3 people I was thinking of, quite the opposite really.

If you read any race based threads you can easily spot them. Usually you see them posting about how rap/hip-hop isn't real music or how any black person that doesn't dress in a typically "white" manner is a gangbanger thug and/or drug dealer.

[Rapscallion]

I do happen to think that rap and hip hop (no idea what the difference is) isn't real music/singing. It's rhyming couplets stated angrily, often incoherently. Still, there are many other stations around to listen to, so I do. Besides, it's not as if I'm unaware that there are white 'artistes' who have muscled in on the act.

I don't have to go into hostelries offering rap culture, and nor do I have to go to the opera (I consider both to be just as unintelligible). I think that the rap culture is holding black people back - the gangster stuff glamourises violence etc, and the rest seems to be boasting for the sake of boasting.

I just turn the channel.

Rapscallion

[CancelMyService]

I've always felt a lot of rap and hip hop (the difference is usually the beat, hip hop tends to be more dance oriented stuff) could be considered the modern equivalent to poetry, only set to music.

Now of course most of the offerings heard on the radio is garbage, but that's true for most genres of music.


You make a solid point about rap culture holding black people back, too many kids (black and white actually) miss the point that a lot of rap is more of a cautionary tale instead of something to aspire to.

[Boozy]

Gangsta rap is not the only kind of rap/hip-hop. It's the style best known to the majority of people because it's that kind of crap mass-produced, packaged and sold to the masses. And it is a damaging message; not just for black people, but for all people.

But saying that gangsta rap is representative of all hip-hop is like pointing to Britney Spears and saying that her music is representative of all white people.

Real hip-hop is beautifully lyrical, and while it can be gritty, the underlying message is usually one of hope and peace. There is far more of this style than the gangsta crap the average person is familiar with, but because it doesn't preach the culture of consumerism and excess, it doesn't get much play.

[BlaqueKatt]

Real hip-hop is beautifully lyrical, and while it can be gritty, the underlying message is usually one of hope and peace. There is far more of this style than the gangsta crap the average person is familiar with, but because it doesn't preach the culture of consumerism and excess, it doesn't get much play.

Personally I recommend public enemy

lyrics to :
Hitler day-about Columbus day
megablast-anti-drug message
So whatcha Gone Do now?-heavily anti-"gangsta rap"
Air Hoodlam-against using sports ability as an alternative to actually learning in school.

[AFPheonix]

http://www.american-pictures.com/roots/index.htm
This is somewhat germaine to the discussion, and it really made me rethink how our country has dealt with racism, and it's impact on us even recently. I don't think we always realize what's going on in our little insular lives.
It puts a new perspective on things, though. It's a huge site, and the guy can get a little out in the stratosphere on some of his opinions, but don't let that dissuade you from going through all the galleries.

[wanderingjoe72]

I find this to be a very interesting discussion. As an American of hispanic descent, I hve seen a rise especially in the southwest of ethnocentric hate groups that would rival the Klan in their agendas that get off scott free becuase they claim to be civic groups helping Mexican immigrants (not the legal ones either). The same rhetoric comes out of these groups as well. It is a huge issue here. Somany trying to give "rights" to non citizens that have broken US law.

How does this relate? Well I have seen so many of them, especially the younger ones espouse the "gangster" lifestyle. Playing the music, giving the attitude and turning barrios into ghettos. So the glorification of rap and the lifestyle is infecting another group. I have noticed the common denominator seems to be a lack of education.

On a side note, I saw Al Sharpton in the airport in Newark and it was all I could do not to call him a racist asshole to his face. I just kept reminding myself that getting arrested would be a bad thing.

[DGoddess]

I'm no fan of Al Sharpton either. That man always pulls the race card every chance he gets and he's always the first one to start with that shit.

He and Jesse Jackson appear to be cut from the same cloth in that respect.

Want respect? Show respect and you'll get respect. Color doesn't matter. Of course, to these two it's everything.

They can go running around the world, sticking their noses in other people's affairs all they please, but it doesn't change the stripes on the tiger.

And apparently they're not admitting to one overlooked fact about the slaves that came over from Africa centuries ago . . . a number of them were sold into slavery by their own people.

Of course they'd probably deny it until the cows come home . . . doesn't change what happened or how.

As far as the gang violence goes, we've got it here in Greensboro. As of 2006, we had (according to the Greensboro Police department) approximately 300 gangs in this area alone. Think of us as the New York of the South in that respect . .

Some of those are of either Asian or Hispanic, but the majority of them are black. Last summer, my neighborhood was plagued by wannabe gangbangers who were running around in packs at all hours of the night/spraying graffiti on fences/breaking out windows in several small businesses within a couple of blocks of me/attempting to break into the beauty shop across the street from me. We had police cars patrolling the area reguarly, as they were getting calls and complaints all over the area (hell, even I had to call them b/c 3 guys were trying to break into the newspaper stand at the beauty shop and were tossing it about like a frisbee!)

That same night the front door glass was busted out over at the beauty shop, a local hardware store also had a break-in. Right before 4 a.m. the next morning, my Mom called 911 because she had heard 3 shots in quick succession. . . The police officer who came to investigate said that there had been someone else 2 blocks away who had also called 911 at the same time Mom had and reported hearing 3 gunshots - and he was located in the direction of where Mom thought they shots were coming from.

Even scarier . . . among the items missing from the Ace Hardware store break-in earlier that evening was a shotgun. It did appear as if the two incidents were related.

Not long after that, school started back up and our roaming packs of wannabes started to disappear. . . . heard several families got evicted from their rental homes in the area. The gangs have pretty much dispersed and some of the kids who remain in the area aren't seen roaming the streets, yelling and hollering profanities so much - they're staying in their yards or on the porches.

But yet it's not the black youth's fault that they get involved with a gang and end up either dead or in jail . . . must be Whitey holding them back again.

[AdminAssistant]

Last spring, there was a particularly spectacular incident in KCMO. One guy is in a car, being chased by another car full of guys with weapons. They chase each other through the old, white, rich neighborhood and guy #1 crashes his car in an innocent bystanders truck. The gang in the second car fires off a ton of bullets, then races away.

I didn't hear if it was gang related or not, although that could certainly be assumed.

One of the things that makes me glad I'm not in KC anymore. (I mean, they have the show Kansas City SWAT for a reason)