But fag means cigarette!

[DrFaroohk]

Alright, let's try it this way:

Either the meaning of the word can change, in which case, it no longer means "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

Or the meaning of words cannot change, in which case, it NEVER meant "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

Pick one.

[the_std]

Hahahahaha!

The meaning of the word CAN change, but you don't get to change it. It changes by broad social acceptance, which "fag" has definitely not reached, seeing as how many people are still offended by it.

A bunch of griefers trying to be as offensive as possible don't get to decide what other people are offended by.

[Nyoibo]

Quick question to DrFaroohk, so does this mean that from now on instead of calling you by your handle I can refer to you as cockslot, douchenozzle, cuntflap or fuckstick or anything you may find offensive, because I say they don't mean what you think they mean?

[Seifer]

Or maybe the history involved in the world is just a little too painful for people to just "cope." You don't get to unilaterally decide what people are or aren't (or, should or shouldn't be) offended by.

Most of the idiots who use the word "nigger" in everyday vernacular are too young and/or stupid to understand or remember the negative connotations to the word.

[Gravekeeper]

Alright, let's try it this way:

No. This isn't even up for debate. Homosexual slurs have not changed their meaning. They're still used to bully, abuse and marginalize homosexuals. They're still used as hurtful weapons from grade school to the grave. There have been programs in place to try and eliminate their usage by students in public schools for over a decade now.

To try and defend your usage of it in online gaming is even more ludicrous. Seeing as 99.9% of its usage in online games is exactly what the word means and if they don't get that across on the first pass they're coming back with fag, queer, cocksucker, etc.

You're the 0.01% apparently.

The last person I saw do this in an online game recently I called out on his bullshit and was immediately called a "homofag queer" that was "Having queer buttsex" with the other people agreeing with me in general chat. He was then ostricized by the majority for being a bigoted little prick until he ragequit.

The fact you would sit here and defend the usage such terms as innocolous is appalling and honestly you should be shamed of yourself.

You don't get decide if or when the meaning of it changes. The people being hurt by it do and seeing as kids are still being bullied with it to the point of suicide, that isn't happening any fucking time soon.

[Nekojin]

Alright, let's try it this way:

Either the meaning of the word can change, in which case, it no longer means "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

Or the meaning of words cannot change, in which case, it NEVER meant "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

Pick one.

This is a false dichotomy. There's more than just those two possibilities, and we are not required to select from the choices you offer. The reaility is, "The meaning of the word can change, but it takes more than a few self-entitled idiots who use it, claiming that it doesn't mean what other people take it to mean, before it'll change; and it hasn't changed yet."

[DrFaroohk]

Wrong again. I get to decide what I mean, since I know better than anyone else, and it takes more than a few self-righteous assholes to change that, claiming they're doing it for the betterment of humanity when really they just have so little to do with their spare time they have to make big issues out of these tiny little things.

[Hyena Dandy]

You can decide what you mean, but not what they hear.

The purpose of language is communication.

That goes two ways.

[Mytical]

Yes, and you can create your own language and expect people to observe it, understand it, and speak it. Doesn't mean it is going to happen. While yes, you know what you meant and others don't..there are other ways of expressing yourself that would cause no confusion or problems. Instead of that, however, you want everybody to bow to YOUR way. Sorry, world does not work that way.

So yeah, you can say whatever you want, and mean whatever you want..but you have to live with the consequences of it. *shrugs*

[BlaqueKatt]

Either the meaning of the word can change, in which case, it no longer means "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

Or the meaning of words cannot change, in which case, it NEVER meant "I HATE HOMOSEXUALS!"

see my post on page 3 which links to how words are reclaimed(you are not randall graves, and clerks 2 is only a movie not reality)

A reclaimed or reappropriated word, is a word that was at one time a pejorative but has been brought back into acceptable usage—usually starting within the communities that experienced oppression under that word. Reclaiming or reappropriating a word involves re-evaluating a term that in the dominant culture is, or at one time was, used by a majority to oppress various minorities of that same culture. As such, the use of these terms by outside parties is usually viewed as strongly derogatory.

A moslum calling me an infidel, usually means they think I should be killed, a fellow atheist calling me that is fine-I was a member of the "internet infidels" message board.

[Nekojin]

Wrong again. I get to decide what I mean, since I know better than anyone else, and it takes more than a few self-righteous assholes to change that, claiming they're doing it for the betterment of humanity when really they just have so little to do with their spare time they have to make big issues out of these tiny little things.

You're deliberately conflating two very different concepts: meaning and intent. You get to determine intent. You don't get to determine meaning. Meaning is a social construct - no one person gets to decide it. It can change over time, but you having a different intent doesn't change the meaning.

When you use a word, it doesn't really matter what your intent is, when your intent conflicts with the understood meaning of the word. Everyone interprets you interprets it based on their understanding of the meaning.

In other words, if you choose to call someone a "fag," everyone else (all listeners, but especially the recipient/target) may well decide that you're a homophobic bigot. And they have just as much right to call you that, as you have to call them a fag.

[DrFaroohk]

Awesome. So the next time I get offended at something that really isn't offensive, it's all the other guy's fault.

[the_std]

Hahahahaha!

I'm sorry, but this whole topic is getting ridiculously hilarious. I just laugh out loud every time I read this thread.

[Nekojin]

Awesome. So the next time I get offended at something that really isn't offensive, it's all the other guy's fault.

It depends. Would the average, reasonable person would find it offensive, then the speaker is at fault. If it's not something that the average, reasonable person would find offensive, then the person taking offense is at fault.

When you take an absolutist position (such as several of the ones you've taken in this thread), odds are good that you're the one at fault.

[wolfie]

over in the States and Canada I have no idea if it has ever been used as a well known general slag for cigs, or if the "but it means cig's" excuse should read "But it means Cig's in England." Still your what, calling something an English Cigarette?

WW1 song "Pack up your troubles" contains the line "While you've a Lucifer to light your fag", with "Lucifer" in this context being an early brand of matches, rather than the devil.

Disney cartoon from (I believe) the '50s where Goofy tries to quit smoking talks about "That cool fag".

A witchfinder is trying to bluff his way onto a military base through a checkpoint manned by a deep-south yankee.

Ain't no such thing - if they're from the Deep South, they aren't Yankees, and are likely to take offense at being referred to as such.

What would it even MEAN to call someone a Nicker... They're a fan of New York basketball teams? They steal a lot of highly inconsequential items? They have an annoying laugh?

Or you could be saying that they're no good - after all, that's what the British expression "that's pants" means (at least to my understanding).

A bit O/T, but with all the "smart bombs" out there (such as the Paveway), the Mk. 82 Snakeye isn't just a "dumb bomb", it's retarded.

BTW, people with physical handicaps shouldn't take offense at a bunch of framing carpenters talking about "cripples".