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If you're not neurotypical, you're being rude?

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  • If you're not neurotypical, you're being rude?

    A rant about something I see happening in the comment threads of some blogs I frequent.

    Many bloggers I read are not neurotypical. Asperger's, Autism, ASD, ADHD, Tourette's, and BiPolar are among the diagnoses present in the the blogosphere around me. I also read several blogs relating to disability issues, issues of social justice, feminism, and similar subjects, written by neurotypical (people with typical brains and communication patterns, essentially) people. Now, most of these bloggers also read one another's blogs.

    Increasingly, I'm seeing a pattern where someone non-neurotypical comments on a neurotypical person's blog, and then gets scolded for being rude, presumptuous, snarky, inconsiderate, or something similar. I'm pretty accustomed to non-NT communication, and I notice that I fairly frequently communicate in an Aspie-like way-- very directly.

    Not sure why, whether it's my own neurology or simply a "monkey see monkey do" thing given that many members of my family communicate in unusual ways, though I don't know of any actual Autism-spectrum diagnoses in my immediate family. I do come from a family of scientists, who communicate like scientists-- very direct and to the point, when they communicate at all. Anyway, for various reasons, I rarely see my non-NT friends' "rude" comments as anything but direct. Sometimes I do notice a social faux pas, but on a pretty regular basis, it's something about which I think, "That was not the best way to say that," but think nothing more of it, but someone else sees it as a major offense.

    It sucks to watch friends argue-- especially when they are close enough and know each other well enough that, if the NT person thought about it, they would probably realize that they're not encountering intentional rudeness or inappropriate communication; rather, they've got some crossed wires and are interpreting the other person's natural method of communication as something other than what it is. For example, a recent issue was whether or not it's okay to apologize for offending someone without retracting the original statement that offended that person. The NT person in the argument said it's necessary to retract the original statement; the non-NT person felt that to do so would essentially mean that he was lying in his original statement, if he could retract it so easily, and that lying is more repugnant than offending a friend with an honest opinion. He felt regret for causing offense, but did not cease to hold the position that caused the offense.

    What a silly thing to argue about, right? And even sillier when you realize that it's essentially an argument about, "The way my brain works is better than the way your brain works." That's like saying, "I'm better because my favorite color is better than yours, and it is better than yours because it's my favorite." Circular logic. The only grounds to say that your own brain is better is that it is your own-- and, if you believe that, you probably wouldn't believe it any less if you had the other person's brain instead of your own.

    Someone can know more than someone else, someone can be more socially skilled than someone else, but I don't think it's possible to say that someone's brain, overall, is a more desirable type of brain than someone else's. You get into Eugenics' territory if you follow that particular path very far.

    So, I'm making more of a committment to stop when I'm offended and think about whether or not the person who upset me meant to cause me offense. And I'm eliminating the phrase, "You're acting/communicating/behaving inappropriately" from my vocabulary, except with small children whose behavior is my responsibility at the time, after hearing many of my non-NT friends' frustrations with that specific characterization of their behavior. Instead, I'll ask questions-- "Did you mean that comment as a sexual innuendo?" "Were you intending to characterize me as less intelligent than yourself?" "Did you know that your voice seems very loud to me right now?"

    Hopefully that'll prevent me from being one of those clueless NTs who scolds and belittles others for what just happens to be the way they communicate; but if anyone else has tips for me (or NTs in general) on avoiding that situation, I'd be interested in hearing them.

    Oh, and a suggestion of my own: If you're neurotypical and in a position to reprimand others about their behavior (teacher, manager, etc.), it might be wise to ask someone you know who isn't neurotypical if they'd mind occasionally giving you some advice, and asking them about situations in which the way someone is communicating just doesn't make much sense to you. Maybe you've got some crossed wires of your own with someone in your life.

  • #2
    As a non-neurotypical...

    Saydrah, I *heart* you for this post.
    ~ The American way is to barge in with a bunch of weapons, kill indiscriminately, and satisfy the pure blood lust for revenge. All in the name of Freedom, Apple Pie, and Jesus. - AdminAssistant ~

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    • #3
      Great post, Saydrah!

      I don't think I'm neurotypical. I know I've made an awful lot of verbal faux pas and inadvertently made people angry, exasperated, or laugh scornfully at something I said. I certainly don't mean to say rude or stupid things, it just comes out that way sometimes.

      It's also difficult for me to figure out non-verbal communication. The little gestures and nuances that are second nature to most people, I either don't see them or don't understand them. And of course people get mad at me or think I'm stupid because I don't pick up their nonverbal cues.

      I guess all I can say is be patient and put yourself in the other person's shoes. A little understanding and clear communication go a very long way.
      People behave as if they were actors in their own reality show. -- Panacea
      If you're gonna be one of the people who say it's time to make America great again, stop being one of the reasons America isn't great right now. --Jester

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      • #4
        I believe that a lot of people are far more attuned to how something is said rather than the information contained in the exchange .Also they will react to the form of the argument rater than the actual content.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by machinest View Post
          I believe that a lot of people are far more attuned to how something is said rather than the information contained in the exchange .Also they will react to the form of the argument rater than the actual content.
          As a dyspraxic I don't receive that information (as much/often) as someone who is not, which can lead to some very interesting conversations.
          The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it. Robert Peel

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          • #6
            Originally posted by XCashier View Post
            It's also difficult for me to figure out non-verbal communication. The little gestures and nuances that are second nature to most people, I either don't see them or don't understand them.
            Me neither. When I was first diagnosed, I was working with a therapist who thought the best way to help me with understanding nonverbal cues was to watch taped TV dramas. IIRC that didn't work too well because even then I knew "real" people generally would not act that way.

            I tend to be a very direct communicator and not interested in social games (probably why I was such an outcast in HS). I try not to offend people, although there was the occasional slip when I was younger.
            "Any state, any entity, any ideology which fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dreamstalker View Post
              I tend to be a very direct communicator and not interested in social games (probably why I was such an outcast in HS).
              That's me, too. Like I said, I don't mean to offend people, I just don't think or speak exactly like everyone else. And I thought the verbal and social games back in HS was absolute bulls***. I couldn't see the point. Which is probably why I was always treated like dirt by most of the girls, and most of my better friends were guys (they don't seem to play as many games as girls do).

              Thankfully, many people outgrow that nonsense. I haven't had nearly as many problems in adulthood. But it does still crop up once in a while.
              People behave as if they were actors in their own reality show. -- Panacea
              If you're gonna be one of the people who say it's time to make America great again, stop being one of the reasons America isn't great right now. --Jester

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              • #8
                Not to offend anyone here who may be "non neurotypical", but why has it become the #1 defense of rude behavior on the internet to suggest the person may have some form of autism, ADD, ADHD, etc. IMO it's almost become a cop-out that encourages bad behavior. Kind of reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where Peter finds out he's borderline mentally retarded and goes around acting inappropriately with the excuse "I can't help it, I'm retarded".

                Now I'm not saying autism=mental retardation, but it seems like a diagnosis of a disorder shouldn't excuse someone from the norms of proper behavior. Just like the stories about parents of autistic kids letting them run wild and everyone gets mad at the person/business who kicks mom out for having unruly kids. Why should other people have to deal with out of control children?

                I guess my point is that I would have thought it would be offensive to people with these disorders to see them being used (abused, IMO) as the reason for jerky behavior, but the opposite seems to be the case. Isn't there a fear that anyone autistic, et al being stereotyped as someone who goes around acting like an asshole?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CancelMyService View Post
                  Not to offend anyone here who may be "non neurotypical", but why has it become the #1 defense of rude behavior on the internet to suggest the person may have some form of autism, ADD, ADHD, etc. IMO it's almost become a cop-out that encourages bad behavior.
                  I always just say they are rude people. Much safer bet. I do agree it seems to be a cop-out these days to get away with stuff.
                  Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Greenday View Post
                    I always just say they are rude people. Much safer bet. I do agree it seems to be a cop-out these days to get away with stuff.


                    I mean, I hate to sound like I agree at all with douchebags like Michael Savage, but it does seem like there's a lot of over- (and self-) diagnoses of these disorders nowadays and a lot of people, especially kids, just seem like rude little shits rather than someone with autism or ADHD. The few people I know who genuinely have these disorders seem so quiet and withdrawn by comparison I can't see how there wouldn't be some offense taken.

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                    • #11
                      Hey, why act normal, when you can act however you want and blame it on diseases and disorders?
                      Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. - Starship Troopers

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                      • #12
                        True. The idiots who explain away being a brat by using a real disorder piss me off, you jerks are making it all but impossible for those of us who do have $syndrome/disorder.

                        If it were up to me, it would be illegal to use $disorder as an excuse if you have not been positively diagnosed by someone who knows what they're talking about. Enforcement is another ball of worms, but it seems like a good idea...
                        "Any state, any entity, any ideology which fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete."

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                        • #13
                          It all depends on how they deal with it. If the person just blythely explains away their arseholish behaviour by saying they have a disorder, and doesn't bother to try and correct it, then they are just rude twats. If, however, they are horrified by the suggestion that they've upset someone and try hard to make amends, then they could well be genuine.

                          I have, in the past, upset people before while online; sometimes, I've assumed I've hurt someone's feelings when in fact I didn't and they were all "Huh?" when I PMed them with an apology. But if said person or even someone else who read the topic tells me that I've been rude, then I will try and make up for what I've done; and then try harder. I spend a lot of my time online reviewing what I've written before posting it, so as to make sure I'm not posting unintentional nastiness. Somehow, it's easier to communicate online... but easier to be unintentionally rude. -_-
                          "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lace Neil Singer View Post
                            Somehow, it's easier to communicate online... but easier to be unintentionally rude. -_-
                            Tone of voice doesn't carry over in text most of the time. That's primarily how I tell whether someone is being intentionally rude or it just came out that way.

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                            • #15
                              I end up overdoing the smilies or text emotions sometimes, just to try and put accross that I'm joking.

                              However, there are some people who are offended by everything, and there's no point in trying to be nice to them. -.-
                              "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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