Everyone on benefit is a scammer!

[Aethian]

K...

1. Why? Why do you guys put up with loosing so much of your pay just to see it wasted like with the links Lace posted. Here if we find someone abusing the system if it's reported and they find it to be truthful the person has the ability to LOOSE their support.

2. I thought that when they were figuring out the living wage / minimum wage it used to be more equal thing. So what happened to that?

3. Where is the level of "I can't work" to "I don't want to work" like if we go back to the links that Lace posted, there seem to be enough kids to help support the family as well as someone who just doesn't want to work. I know that this happens here too. Hell I used to deliver to a apartment complex where EVERYONE was on a state aid of some type. I had to grin and bear it once where some *itch was parading around boots that cost well over 500 dollars and then COMPLAINING that her "baby's Daddy" was behind on giving her money cause she had nothing to buy diapers or food with.

4. Where are the checks and balances? Yes there will always be areas where someone will slip through but I've seen too many people on these threads where help is needed but damn, try to get your OWN help and all of a sudden the state says you don't need their help and your left in a worse position then before.

Granted I've seen the horrible here. I've seen the players of the system get away with almost murder while my Mom is told she makes 12 dollars too much but if she REALLY wanted food assistance they would offer 16 bucks. How does that help? I know people would say, well thats 16 more then she had but really? It costs more then 16 a month to get from building to building, office to office, to just be told that she is missing this one piece of info and now has to go to this other building.

I dunno but the more I keep reading some of the more UK threads the more I'm glad my taxes aren't as high.

[Rapscallion]

1 - it's a very small minority who successfully scam the system. When you compare the evils of people living in destitution compared to a handful doing rather well, I know which one I'd choose. Effectively, cutting benefits due to a handful of ne'er-do-wells is punishing the majority for the sins of the minority.

2 - right wingers. Both sides in our politics are centrist to right wing these days. They'd disagree, but...

3 - I don't have enough experience of this, but I suspect I can refer you to point one.

4 - I don't have the experience of this again. It's been two decades since I was last employed, but back then they did check everything, and these days they have far more technology to help them.

Taxes being as high - it's figured into the cost of living. It's not possible to make a direct comparison due to different ratios. For example, when dining in the US the cost for three people is pretty close to the cost of one person over here, so I often ended up getting the cost of the meal (out of embarassment) and asked the others to get the tip (out of lack of familiarity).

It's not a simple thing to work out and I don't think it can be figured.

Rapscallion

[SongsOfDragons]

For comparison's sake, the adult NMW is £6.08 an hour. This is the ADULT minimum wage; the amounts for ages 18-20, 16-18 and for apprentices are much lower.

In today's US dollar exchange rate, that's $9.57 an hour. Yanks: how does this compare? IIRC the MW isn't national it differs per state?

The complaints about how our wages don't match the cost of living are increasing a lot. Just today on BBC news there was the report that unemployment has gone down, but so has the economy, which doesn't make sense...until you realise that the JobCentre will send you on courses without any decision on your part (well you do have one, but the alternative is losing your benefits) and they will pester you INCESSANTLY about going self-employed (I actually had to shout at my advisor to stop presenting this as an option to me), and they will make you take the first 16-hour a week job just to get you out of their hair.

There are even things going around here called 'zero-hour jobs' which practically have you on call for minimum wage, and no guarantee of any kind of hors week-by-week. I'm lucky that I can decline these jobs by the 'virtue' of my epilepsy meaning I cannot work shift. Tax credits are practically useless at times, especially when the hours per week one needs to work to claim them are often nowhere near the 24 you need. The tax that sucks the most out of my meagre income right now is council tax... hate hate hate it.

[Aethian]

For comparison's sake, the adult NMW is £6.08 an hour. This is the ADULT minimum wage; the amounts for ages 18-20, 16-18 and for apprentices are much lower.

That...is stupid. If a teen is trying to help the family out by working the gas or time from school work isn't being helped by having a lower rate.

In today's US dollar exchange rate, that's $9.57 an hour. Yanks: how does this compare? IIRC the MW isn't national it differs per state?

The MW law is a federal deal. Currently the MW for the US is 7.25 per hour. HOWEVER many states DO have a MW that are different. While most don't fall beneath the 7.25 there are a few exceptions, but federal trumps state law in those cirrcumstances...LINK BTW 9.57 a hour would be awesome to many since that gets into the realm of being able to afford rent for a low end spot on just one weeks worth of work.

The complaints about how our wages don't match the cost of living are increasing a lot. Just today on BBC news there was the report that unemployment has gone down, but so has the economy, which doesn't make sense...until you realize that the JobCentre will send you on courses without any decision on your part (well you do have one, but the alternative is losing your benefits) and they will pester you INCESSANTLY about going self-employed (I actually had to shout at my adviser to stop presenting this as an option to me), and they will make you take the first 16-hour a week job just to get you out of their hair.

I was going to bring up the idea of self-employment. Is it because there are too many people doing that or is it because it can take too long to make the ball rolling of a hobby being a job?

There are even things going around here called 'zero-hour jobs' which practically have you on call for minimum wage, and no guarantee of any kind of hours week-by-week. I'm lucky that I can decline these jobs by the 'virtue' of my epilepsy meaning I cannot work shift. Tax credits are practically useless at times, especially when the hours per week one needs to work to claim them are often nowhere near the 24 you need. The tax that sucks the most out of my meager income right now is council tax... hate hate hate it.

If they can't guarantee hours why are they asking for employees at all? Here those are mostly filled by temp workers that are called the day of or the day before and get paid for those hours through the temp agency.

[Zod]

2. I thought that when they were figuring out the living wage / minimum wage it used to be more equal thing. So what happened to that?

It's still more or less liveable : as long as you're willing to either live in a bedsit, or share with others.

The 3 bedroom house I live used to have 6 Latvians living in it. Even at minimum wage, they'd have still gone home after a few years with a sizeable amount of cash.

Cost of living is going up all across the world : too many people and not enough resources, perhaps? Old TV programs where a single person supports an entire family just seem unreal to me now.

I dunno but the more I keep reading some of the more UK threads the more I'm glad my taxes aren't as high.

What percentage do you pay in taxes? Discounting Sales and Council tax, I pay 19% : which seems about reasonable to me.

We used to have a 10% tax rate, but the Labour party - the friends of working men, scrapped it.

We do still get a £8,000 tax free allowance each year: so you have to do about 25 hours a week at minimum wage before you'd start getting taxed.

I was going to bring up the idea of self-employment. Is it because there are too many people doing that or is it because it can take too long to make the ball rolling of a hobby being a job?

No paid holiday, no paid sick leave.

Rather then pushing up minimum wage - which would start an awesome fight with every company in the country, I'd raise the personal allowance to about £12k, so a person working full time at minimum wouldn't be taxed for it.

[Rapscallion]

I was going to bring up the idea of self-employment. Is it because there are too many people doing that or is it because it can take too long to make the ball rolling of a hobby being a job?

Quotas. The unemployment folk have a duty to get the number of unemployed people down. Self employed people don't appear on those lists.

If they can't guarantee hours why are they asking for employees at all? Here those are mostly filled by temp workers that are called the day of or the day before and get paid for those hours through the temp agency.

The exact term, if I believe a very unrealiable source at work, is 'casual worker', though we tend to use the term 'zero hour contract employee'. It's used to deal with fluctuating workload due to seasonal or other variances in demand.

The company isn't required to provide work, and the employee isn't required to attend, but generally does. It's usually a semi-skilled position where they're known to and trained by the company involved.

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

The problem is that it doesn't seem to matter who's in power; Labour, the so-called working class party or the Conservatives; the ex Eton school boys. Either way, the working classes still get taxed to oblivion cuz the politicians have no bloody clue about how much things cost, and how difficult it is to live on a retail wage when you're being taxed to death. It shouldn't be that a person's better off if they don't work; if someone's working, even just part time, then they should be rewarded for it.

One of the main problems the UK has at the moment is dealing with the old Labour government's "open door" policy on immigrants. [x] And of course, no-one dares point it out, for fear of being labled a racist bigot. [x] I can say honestly that I haven't voted for any of the three major parties ever; I always vote for UKIP. I just don't see how these wealthy politicians can ever be in touch with what the working classes want; even Labour, who are supposed to be on our side.

[SongsOfDragons]

As to the self-employed stuff, my advisor was trying to get me to believe that all I'd need to earn a week was £20, and all the rest would be paid by the government's self-employed benefits. Luckily I'm not stupid or innumerate, and I was able to use the power of maths to beat him down. Still he kept on, hence the shouting...

I see more adverts in papers and even in shop windows for self-employed people only to apply to come work there. They do this because, as Raps said, employing a self-employed person in place of a normal employee means no sick pay, no holiday pay, no guaranteed hours, no guaranteed wage...

[Bardmaiden]

Quotas. The unemployment folk have a duty to get the number of unemployed people down. Self employed people don't appear on those lists.

QFT

One of my parents works for the Jobcentre, so I hear the horror stories from that side. Also because my parent is long term (over 20 years) staff hasn't had a pay rise in over four years. They have found reason after reason why they don't get one, I think the last pay rise was about £20...per annum. Staff are leaving and not getting replaced. The office managed to get permission to hire tempory staff but for a limited time (51 weeks usually). It's getting to the point where if you don't cause problems and do enough for the jobcentre you can just sign on rather than get the third degree like I used to get a few years back because they literally do not have the time. Parent is interviewing between 9-13 people a day and this is common in their office.

Also I am long term unemployed (over two years, some of which was dealing with a close death and the depression resulting from it.) I have been sent on a programme (read so the jobcentre staff, who are already overworked don't have to do more.) which is to help me back to work by idenifing the areas that are holding me back, which really helps when the largest problem is that the market is flooded with lots of people with similar experiance and some of whom don't have a two year gap in their work history and shops just seem to want a teenager who they can pay less. I am open to ideas on how to improve things and am working with my adviser on a few things but still it's hard to stand out in such a crowded market. I hate this I want something to do with my days so I am just not sitting at home trying to find work. Also I hate not having money for anything not even a nice present for my boyfriend for his birthday.

[Bardmaiden]

As to the self-employed stuff, my advisor was trying to get me to believe that all I'd need to earn a week was £20, and all the rest would be paid by the government's self-employed benefits. Luckily I'm not stupid or innumerate, and I was able to use the power of maths to beat him down. Still he kept on, hence the shouting...

I see more adverts in papers and even in shop windows for self-employed people only to apply to come work there. They do this because, as Raps said, employing a self-employed person in place of a normal employee means no sick pay, no holiday pay, no guaranteed hours, no guaranteed wage...

As parent would say bollocks, to do that properly you have to do a calulation and being self employed doesn't guarantee a constant pay rate you could use.

Me too and I avoid them like the plague.

[fireheart17]

And the new sub-argument in my latest rounds: everyone on benefits can get a job, they just choose not to.

yeah, tell that to all the companies who I've been sending out applications too repeatedly for the past 12 months. And it's gotten to the point now where one company appears to have blacklisted me.

[Nyoibo]

And the new sub-argument in my latest rounds: everyone on benefits can get a job, they just choose not to.

yeah, tell that to all the companies who I've been sending out applications too repeatedly for the past 12 months. And it's gotten to the point now where one company appears to have blacklisted me.

According to my employment services provider I've been out of work and on benefits for 138 weeks now, I've given up trying to find a job, in 3 years I've been unemployed for over 2.5 of them, no one wants to employ me because I haven't worked for so long.

[Andara Bledin]

Get a side job. Call yourself an independent contractor.

You can use it to show that you aren't just sitting around looking for work despite the fact that you're mostly just sitting idle in between looking for work.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

You lose your benefits over here at that point.

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

After I left college and couldn't get work, I started working in the Oxfam bookstore, just to get out of the house. In fact, I eventually wound up working full days there cuz they had a staffing issue and I just wanted to be doing something other than watching endless cartoons.

Apparently now the Government want the unemployed to do something similar or else they'll lose their benefits if they refuse.