Everyone on benefit is a scammer!

[SongsOfDragons]

I'm not happy with this new 'work like a slave for 13 weeks before you get a penny in benefit' rubbish. The reason I went on benefits was so I could have some income to pay rent, bills, food, interview clothes, public transport... If one has to work for free for a quarter of a year before they see that, how exactly are they going to live to get to that work? Just because they're NEET doesn't mean they have kind parents who are paying for their food and roof, or even parents at all.

And side jobs, forget it. Anything you earn in the week/two weeks between JobCentre meetings is subtracted from the benefit you get. Net gain, zero - often minus because, as above, the side job may require clothes or travel. The experience may be worth it - and yet I've had employers tell me that that kind of work isn't the right kind of experience they're looking for.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Exactly why I can't up my hours right now, cuz if I do, I'll lose my already capped housing benefit and my tax credits will go down, so it won't be worth it cuz I'll have less money. -.-

Honestly, sometimes it seems as tho a person is better off not working at all; if they don't work, they get their fucking council tax and rent paid for them as well as getting bigger handouts than I get when I'm contributing and they're not!

Sorry for the exclamation marks, but I'm really pissed off right now that this fucking useless government prefers to screw the working class and steal half their money in taxes rather than reward them for bothering to get off their arses and work... at the same time as rewarding the lazy. Don't cut my housing benefit; cut the housing benefit of the lazy gits I see waddling thru the town on their way to spend their dole money on crates of beer. And cut taxes, you fucking Tory rich boys.

[TheHuckster]

Exactly why I can't up my hours right now, cuz if I do, I'll lose my already capped housing benefit and my tax credits will go down, so it won't be worth it cuz I'll have less money. -.-

Honestly, sometimes it seems as tho a person is better off not working at all; if they don't work, they get their fucking council tax and rent paid for them as well as getting bigger handouts than I get when I'm contributing and they're not!

Sorry for the exclamation marks, but I'm really pissed off right now that this fucking useless government prefers to screw the working class and steal half their money in taxes rather than reward them for bothering to get off their arses and work... at the same time as rewarding the lazy. Don't cut my housing benefit; cut the housing benefit of the lazy gits I see waddling thru the town on their way to spend their dole money on crates of beer. And cut taxes, you fucking Tory rich boys.

This pretty much sums up my frustration with social policies done wrong. It's perfectly fine to offer aid to people who need it. Welfare programs should give people enough money to stay fed and sheltered, but these programs also need to encourage people to get out of the situation they're in so that they're self-sufficient.

If people are discouraged from getting a job because they find their government benefits are better than getting paid by employer because their net income after taxes is, at best, marginally better, then that program is failing.

[Nekojin]

If people are discouraged from getting a job because they find their government benefits are better than getting paid by employer because their net income after taxes is, at best, marginally better, then that program is failing.

While I agree with this statement in principle, the solution usually proposed (namely, to cut benefits) is actually the worst solution, because that just makes the plight of the unemployed/homeless worse. The better solution is to raise the minimum wage, so that voluntarily leaving the dole is attractive.

And, ultimately, we do need to accept the fact that there will be a small percentage of the populace who will prefer a safe, consistent handout over the risk and stress of dealing with real life. We shouldn't be so quick to cut these people loose and set them adrift. Some people have had some really fucked-up upbringings, making it difficult, if not impossible, to cope with modern life.

[TheHuckster]

While I agree with this statement in principle, the solution usually proposed (namely, to cut benefits) is actually the worst solution, because that just makes the plight of the unemployed/homeless worse. The better solution is to raise the minimum wage, so that voluntarily leaving the dole is attractive.

Alternately, you can lower taxes for those minimum wage earners so that they keep more of their income. After you do so, you'll find that a number of people who were previously on the dole no longer need it, and the budget gap that resulted from lowering taxes narrows.

And, ultimately, we do need to accept the fact that there will be a small percentage of the populace who will prefer a safe, consistent handout over the risk and stress of dealing with real life. We shouldn't be so quick to cut these people loose and set them adrift. Some people have had some really fucked-up upbringings, making it difficult, if not impossible, to cope with modern life.

Certainly. And it's not just people with horrible upbringings, but those who are simply unwell due to other means, who need this sort of aid. The challenge is minimizing this percentage and avoiding abuse as much as possible.

[fireheart17]

After I left college and couldn't get work, I started working in the Oxfam bookstore, just to get out of the house. In fact, I eventually wound up working full days there cuz they had a staffing issue and I just wanted to be doing something other than watching endless cartoons.

Apparently now the Government want the unemployed to do something similar or else they'll lose their benefits if they refuse.

I'm tempted to do that at the local Oxfam store, to refresh my skills.

Down here, they are doing just that, involving work experience programs. I'm in a slightly unusual situation however, in that my study IS my "work experience", although from November I'll need to find something else. (while my course only goes for 2 years, job search provider and Centrelink could only assist with one year).

I have been getting back a few interviews though, so fingers crossed I might actually GET something paid.

I don't mind doing work experience since I can gain the experience I actually need to find work in areas that suit me.

[HYHYBT]

Why do benefits cut off (or have anything you make subtracted from them) rather than fading out gradually? If for every dollar you make (including contracting) your benefit was reduced by, say, 40¢, you'd always have an incentive to work if and when you could.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Not really; see my post. If I add to my hours, I'll actually lose money; after tax has been subtracted and my tax credits and housing benefits reduced, I'll actually be out of pocket. So I'm trapped on thirty hours when I actually WANT to do more hours but I can't cuz I need the benefit money to keep my head above water. I probably wouldn't be on benefits if I was allowed to keep more of my pay packet, rather than having it stolen by the Government.

[SongsOfDragons]

Why do benefits cut off (or have anything you make subtracted from them) rather than fading out gradually? If for every dollar you make (including contracting) your benefit was reduced by, say, 40¢, you'd always have an incentive to work if and when you could.

That would work quite well methinks. Lowering your benefit but still giving you a nice reward for trying to get work.

Unfortunately if it makes sense it's not allowed. Even if you earn a tenner posting leaflets for an afternoon, you have to report it (at least I did) they will take the exact amount you reported earning off what they dump in your bank account.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I do usually manage to keep my raeg under control, but it really annoys me when I see the local chavettes driving up to the petrol station in their giant SUVs. -.- Basically, if your benefits fund a flatscreen TV or an SUV, you're getting too much. Yet the council are quick to clamp down on the likes of me and stop us from getting any more money, even when I end up having to get money off Fiance just so I can buy food for the last week before I get paid.

[TheHuckster]

Whoops... I posted this in the wrong thread and it seems I can't delete this post, I thought this was Berserk Buttons. Sorry.