I don't need to be lectured.

[Rageaholic]

I hate it when professors feel the need to personally tell you not to be late or not to forget assignments. It was the second day of class and I had the professor tell me that I was off tto a bad start. IT WAS THE SECOND DAY!. The reason I was off to a bad start was because the bookstore did not have the book I needed until a day later, thus I couldn't get the homework assignment. So I damn well know I'm off to a bad start, I don't need the reminder.

[bara]

I am of the opinion that many (not most) college professors are useless humans. Depending on the class they teach, they are the middle management of the education world in that they never listen to anyone that is attempting to use logic, common sense, or reason. In fact they even realize deep down they have nothing of value to offer anyone and are actually doing everything they can just so they look useful and don't get fired.

[AdminAssistant]

I am of the opinion that many (not most) college professors are useless humans.

Dude.

Well, I am of the opinion that many (not most) college students are whiny douchebags that need to learn how to read a syllabus, follow instructions, and accept the consequences of their actions without throwing a damned fit. Communication wouldn't hurt either. Can't get the book at the bookstore? Quick e-mail to the professor is all it takes. "Hey, the bookstore is out of X book, so I'm not going to be able to turn in the assignment. May I turn it in late?" Then, you have informed the professor of the situation so that they can 1) call the bookstore and figure out what's up and 2) know that you and probably several others will not be turning in the assignment on time. I would probably scan that sheet out of my book and send it around in an e-mail, but that's just me.

And yes, if I have a student that's slipping up early in the semester, then I'm going to tell them, "Hey, sunshine, you're gonna have to get in the game if you want to do well." That's part of our job, too.

There are sucky college professors. Lazy asses riding along on tenure who hate students and hate teaching. But many, if not most, are good, dedicated people that love their subject area and love talking to other people about it. But, dealing with 18-22 year olds semester after semester can take its toll. A little respect goes a long way.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

There are sucky college professors. Lazy asses riding along on tenure who hate students and hate teaching.

And I have a doozy. Just heard about this twat waffle from my daughter.

Daughter gets syllabus week before class. Daughter reads syllabus the day it comes out. Daughter gets books and software required by syllabus the day she read the syllabus. Does not open them in case the professor decided to change his mind so she can return them.

Tuesday, day one of class, Professor says that he wants to use different book and different software package. Informs students that the book and software are not available in campus bookstore. Also informs students that they *must* have them by the next class.

Next class being 2 days later.

This is a problem. Daughter has no actual money. Has a campus Debit Card that is only usable on campus and a few restaurants and shops near the college.

Not for online purchases.

Daughter can not pull money out of the campus account as this is where her scholarship money goes into to pay tuition, books, campus stuff. Daughter informs professor that this is a problem. Professor says simply "Not my concern. Have materials by next class or you will be removed from the class.

Daughter calls us, we and the rest of the family pull money out of our ass to pay for $200 book and $350 software.

Family (including daughter) now have very low opinion of professor. If you wanted X and Y books and software, then why in the name of Zeus's asshole did you tell the bookstore to buy A and B books and software. And even more baffling is why the flying fuck did you send out the course syllabus, updated a week before class starts, with the wrong books and software.

It's so hard to not be a helicopter parent in cases like this. But we stuck to our guns and told her that this is her battle to fight. We got her what she needed, if she wants to lodge a complaint...that's on her.

Since she doesn't want to pooch her chances at a good grade...she's going to wait until the end of the term (thankfully a one-shot class), and submit a list of complaints *after* she gets her grade.

But many, if not most, are good, dedicated people that love their subject area and love talking to other people about it. But, dealing with 18-22 year olds semester after semester can take its toll. A little respect goes a long way.

With the noted exception of the anal-dwelling twat monkey mentioned above, my daughter has had nothing but gushing praise about how fun the classes are and how good the professors are. Even the drier subjects are taught by teachers who understand how boring math can be and try to liven it up. A couple of professors even told students to return their books and that they'll be provided (at no cost) what they need to study. to save them some money.

So yes, there are bad apples in the bunch and oft times the ones that are bad are phenomenally so, but by and large they are people who deal with a lot of crap and should be posting some of their "heli-parent got in my grill because I flunked their 'precious snowflake' because they couldn't be arsed to actually show up in my gorram class more than twice." stories.

I know...I've been trying to get my sister-in-law to post some of hers on CS.com

[AdminAssistant]

"heli-parent got in my grill because I flunked their 'precious snowflake' because they couldn't be arsed to actually show up in my gorram class more than twice."

Augh, parents. I've gotten a handful of e-mails from parents in the past, and I just inform them of FERPA and tell them that I can't talk to them about their child's grades. The only time I'll talk directly to a parent is when the student is seriously ill/injured.

ETA: Your daughter's professor is a twat-waffle, and she should absolutely complain. If she doesn't feel comfortable doing it now, then she should put it on the year-end evaluations and/or write a complaint to the department chair. It's not impossible to fire someone with tenure and they can still be disciplined.

[Andara Bledin]

ETA: Your daughter's professor is a twat-waffle, and she should absolutely complain. If she doesn't feel comfortable doing it now, then she should put it on the year-end evaluations and/or write a complaint to the department chair. It's not impossible to fire someone with tenure and they can still be disciplined.

This. So much this.

I would absolutely encourage daughter to complain eloquently and specifically about that sort of behavior, in three points: 1) giving out a syllabus that is useless, 2) demanding that all students scrounge up said items within 2 days, 3) demanding that all students buy $600 worth of materials that aren't available on-campus when some of those students, potentially all of them, do not have that kind of money just lying around.

Asshole.

^-.-^

[guywithashovel]

There is a right way and a wrong way to do it, but I think it's reasonable for professors to give "kicks in the pants" to students who might be off to a rocky start. Of course, talking to the student like a recalcitrant child isn't the best way to do it.

One of the instructors where I work will speak to his students about missing assignments, and he will compare it to a job situation. He'll say, "Okay, let's imagine you're at a job, and your boss has given you work to do that is important to the organization. Time comes to collect the work, and you don't have it done. What do you think might happen?"

Of course, some of the students resent that, saying that a classroom situation should not be compared to work. Sure, distinctions can be made with any analogy, but as long as the principle stands, it's valid. I think in this case it is.

[Rageaholic]

There is a right way and a wrong way to do it, but I think it's reasonable for professors to give "kicks in the pants" to students who might be off to a rocky start. Of course, talking to the student like a recalcitrant child isn't the best way to do it.

One of the instructors where I work will speak to his students about missing assignments, and he will compare it to a job situation. He'll say, "Okay, let's imagine you're at a job, and your boss has given you work to do that is important to the organization. Time comes to collect the work, and you don't have it done. What do you think might happen?"

Of course, some of the students resent that, saying that a classroom situation should not be compared to work. Sure, distinctions can be made with any analogy, but as long as the principle stands, it's valid. I think in this case it is.

Actually the students have a valid point. The professors aren't your boss and you'e not getting paid to be there. It's one thing to express concern that a student isn't doing well, but passive aggressive comments are off putting. Especially when it's only the first week of school. I actually like the professor (I had her before). She's far from the worst I've had and knows her stuff, but that naggy attitude grates me.

And bara, that's pretty harsh. I hate that know it all attitude a lot of teachers have, but I wouldn't say they are useless. Perhaps just not as useful as they think they are.

[telecom_goddess]

I think a classroom situation should be compared to being a job. You need certain books/supplies, get them to the best of your ability. You have an assignment due, get it done on time.

That being said, case by case situations where someone can't do that should be evaluated in case there is a genuine reason. But if it's a lame excuse like it's hard or I woke up too late or some such bullshit then fuck 'em. You have to get used to how a job works sooner or later.

And that being said I think it's bullshit that a professor changes the books/software at the last minute. And makes it not available on campus. Get your shit together ahead of time.

Is it me or is school even more insanely expensive than it used to be? In the old days you just had books to get. Now you have to get software too.....what a crock.

[HYHYBT]

On the OP: depending on what you mean by "lectured," but while many people, such as yourself, do know on their own that they're off to a bad start in that situation, many others would take *not* having it pointed out to them as an indication that it doesn't matter after all.

As for the other... I can think of valid reasons the syllabus would have different materials than they were actually going to use, but they surely at least should give more time than that if the new stuff is going to be that hard to get hold of! It's also why, as I believe is mentioned in another thread, it's a good idea not to buy books until after the class has met the first time, though the examples I've run into were more along the lines of something not being necessary after all, or a cheaper alternative, or relevant information about the software that comes with it. (Whether licensing means a new copy is mandatory, or the disc will work anyway, or that we won't be using the disc and so a copy missing it will do fine.)

[gremcint]

I would be severely pissed if a teacher changed books like that and I would frankly tell him so in front of the class and go directly to the department head and tell them exactly how much that is bullshit.

[linguist]

Actually the students have a valid point. The professors aren't your boss and you'e not getting paid to be there.

there are more ways of being paid than monetarily. in the case of a classroom situation, you're being paid with your professor's time and expertise.

[guywithashovel]

That's usually the distinction that the students make, that they aren't getting paid to be there, and therefore, the classroom situation should not be compared to a job situation.

Regardless of any differences that can be found between the two, I think it makes sense to compare a college environment to a job. After all, you're there to train and prepare for a job. I think it makes sense for the instructors to do things to help you prepare for a job situation. It seems to me that pointing out character flaws that might hinder you in a professional situation would be part of that.

And once again, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Making snippy comments to you, especially in front of others, is the wrong way. A better way would be to sit down with the student and talk to him like an adult, explaining that there seem to be some issues that could affect performance in the class. And I do realize that may not be possible at a large university.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

As for the other... I can think of valid reasons the syllabus would have different materials than they were actually going to use

So could I. It's happened to my Son and it's happened to my Daughter many times. A book was out of print and the new edition was not yet at the printers (professor made copies from his book as needed), class was originally going to be taught using X version of software and over the summer Y version was released...many many reasons.

But it was his attitude of "I don't care if you can't magically pull the money out of your ass to buy it or get it sent via overnight shipping to have it here in time...that's not my problem, that's *yours*." that really took the biscuit.

Turns out that the software was available for instant download, but he did have to relent on the "Must have by next class or you're out of here" on the book as even Amazon was backordered.

Otherwise he would have had to toss all of his students.

[Rageaholic]

Just to add, what I really hate about being lectured is that when someone is struggling, they don't need some holier than thou teacher talking down to them. All it does is add insult to injury and makes them look like assholes.

And no, school is not a job. If it was, I'd be getting paid for it so that analogy is bull.