My sister in law's "logic"

[Kaylyn]

Mitt Romney is Morman?

Hmm, guess I care more about what a politician does/stands for than I do about what religion they are. Wonder what that makes me...

Well, clearly it makes you unAmerican. Because despite the fact that our laws are designed to keep religion out of politics, in most people's minds what religion a candidate is is often a deciding factor in who they do or do not vote for.

[smileyeagle1021]

Kaylyn, as I've told my sister in law, voting for Romney for no reason other than he is Mormon is no less closed minded than refusing to vote for him for no other reason than he is Mormon, both stances miss the point that he has a lot more to him than what church he goes to.

[Daskinor]

Most of my die hard republican family members are doing many rounds of mental gymnastics to justify voting for Romney. And in reality the facts are not on their side.

I say I don't trust him because he refuses to release his tax returns. They say he does not need to. Missing the whole "trust him" aspect of my statement.

I don't trust him because of the 'son of boss' scandal and him approving the tax return. They say he wasn't arrested. I sit here thinking it means hes Incompitant or a liar.

There are many more reasons but the point is I wont vote for someone I don't trust to do the right thing. My family doesn't get that, they are so preoccupied with the lies and misinformation. So when faced with a clear statement like "I wont vote for Romney because he 'saved' the Olympics by Lobbying for 1.5 billion dollars from the federal government. More then we spent on all the other Olympic games held in the US, combined. Then Campaigns on a platform of fisical responceablity."

They honestly don't know how to respond to that. they might try to 'strawman' the statement and I will usually shoot that down too. Or they will simply deflect, in this case my uncles answer "At least we had an Olympics" referring to our latest failed bid and having nothing to do with the statement.

So in their minds, convincing me is a way to reaffirm to themselves that they are making the right choice. They don't care how its done, but I must believe as they do.

Deep down I suspect that they don't really want to vote for Romney but feel like the have to.

[blas87]

I'd rather have that kind of drama in my house than the every single day tin foil hatting of my father screaming about Obama being from Kenya and having a Muslim Agenda for our country.

[draco664]

I say I don't trust him because he refuses to release his tax returns. They say he does not need to. Missing the whole "trust him" aspect of my statement.

Seriously? I don't trust him because he's a religious fruitcake, but you don't because he won't release his tax returns?

Have you seen the sort of shit that's been going on for freaking years around Obama's birth certificate?

Anyone who goes into politics is going to get their background trawled for shit. Releasing private documents does not gain you any brownie points from your opponents, but it sure as hell gives them a treasure trove of data to misrepresent. It's got nothing to do with trust, and everything about limiting the amount of shit your opponents can sling.

Besides, if you believe he's hiding something in his tax returns, you've also got to believe that there isn't a hard-core democrat working at the IRS with the ability to order a review. Clinton went through something like that over his financial dealings, having to justify just about every check he or Hillary ever cut. And when nothing beyond innuendo came of that, they had to fall back on trying to make getting a blowjob a crime.

[MadMike]

I'd rather have that kind of drama in my house than the every single day tin foil hatting of my father screaming about Obama being from Kenya and having a Muslim Agenda for our country.

One of my high school friends on Facebook keeps posting stupid shit like that. If you don't agree with his policies, fine. If you've taken an honest look at what he's done or not done in office and you've concluded that he's doing a bad job, fine. But these people who scream about how he's not a U.S. Citizen, or he's a closet muslim extremist -- they sound like a bunch of fucking idiots when they do that.

[draco664]

But these people who scream about how he's not a U.S. Citizen, or he's a closet muslim extremist -- they sound like a bunch of fucking idiots when they do that.

There's a pretty good reason for that...

[Silverharp]

Here's the most recent gem: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,2716920.story
When your candidate is doing so abysmally that you try to bribe your God into personally intervening on his behalf? Time to pack up, kids.
The guy is an elitist, out of touch douchebag, and his religion has nothing to do with that.

[protege]

There's a pretty good reason for that...

Obama occasionally says things like the "future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." That quote came out of his 9/25/12 address to the UN, about recent events in Africa. (I know he's not a Muslim, so don't blast me, OK?) I also know that the comment was part of a much larger address. He tends to drop comments like that in his speeches, and then some of the more radical critics latch onto them. They hear the comments, combine them with a couple media shots with Mideast leaders, the lack of meeting with Israeli leader due to "no time" (yet goes on Letterman?) and then go "Hey, Obama is a Muslim. No wonder he's doing that shit..."

With that said, I'm tired of hearing about it. Both of these candidates suck. The creators of South Park said it best--it's between a big giant douche, and a turd sandwich.

[Duelist925]

Obama occasionally says things like the "future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." That quote came out of his 9/25/12 address to the UN, about recent events in Africa. (I know he's not a Muslim, so don't blast me, OK?) I also know that the comment was part of a much larger address. He tends to drop comments like that in his speeches, and then some of the more radical critics latch onto them. They hear the comments, combine them with a couple media shots with Mideast leaders, the lack of meeting with Israeli leader due to "no time" (yet goes on Letterman?) and then go "Hey, Obama is a Muslim. No wonder he's doing that shit..."

With that said, I'm tired of hearing about it. Both of these candidates suck. The creators of South Park said it best--it's between a big giant douche, and a turd sandwich.

I'm sorry, but no.

Obama may not be perfect, but this is still a far friggan cry from "giant douche and turd sandwhich."

The economy, despite the GOP taking every possible step to block his plans, has improved under Obama. Is the damage completely undone? No, but he's only had half the friggan time the to fix it that it took to sink us this deep, and it takes a lot longer to climb out of a hole than to jump in.

I hate this "Obama is just as bad as Romney, the Left is just as bad as the Right" bs.

Because it is pure bs right now.

Right now, the choices are not between a douche and a turd--its between someone who has plan, and has shared the plan, and so far has done a decent job despite a crapton of powerful people with money not wanting him to succeed, and a guy who will give in to every demand from the billionaries and companies that funded him, and will run this country like a business--when the business's he's run before were run using Vulture Captilism.

A man who actually dealt with hardships, and a man who thinks hardship is having to sell off bits of stock to "get by".

Between a man who willingly gave up both his short and long term birth certificate to pacy a bunch of nutjobs who were shouting about him being a kenyan muslim (and who STILL have not shut up)

And a man who refuses to release any of his tax returned past 2011, and refuses to explain why.

So please, don't boil this down to "Douche and turd" When the actual comparison is nothing of the sort.

[HYHYBT]

Locally, at least, I'm enjoying hearing variations on "they're both awful." Because here, at least, it's coming from people who, up until recently, thought that only Obama was.

[protege]

And a man who refuses to release any of his tax returned past 2011, and refuses to explain why.

Not much different between that and John Kerry's refusal back in 2004. It's only "bad" because Romney is a Republican and therefore evil and must be destroyed

There's so much misinformation out right now it's not even funny. I've seen ads slamming Romney for things that happened after he left Bain Capital in 1999...as well as ads claiming Obama improved the economy...which only focused on the most recent couple of months, and left out the massive losses of the past 3 years! They're more concerned with keeping their jobs and/or destroying the other side.

[Duelist925]

Not much different between that and John Kerry's refusal back in 2004. It's only "bad" because Romney is a Republican and therefore evil and must be destroyed

There's so much misinformation out right now it's not even funny. I've seen ads slamming Romney for things that happened after he left Bain Capital in 1999...as well as ads claiming Obama improved the economy...which only focused on the most recent couple of months, and left out the massive losses of the past 3 years! They're more concerned with keeping their jobs and/or destroying the other side.

Indeed, that's very shady. Had I paid attention to politics in 04, Id've wondered what Kerry was hiding. Much the same way I wonder wtf Romney is hiding.

As for the ad's against Romney: YEah, I do find that to be a shame, since theres enough to slam him with without making stuff up. However, there has been a bit of speculation that he might have continued playing some role in Bain after 1999, with Moveon.org even calling for the justice department to investigate whether or not Romney was lieing when he stated that he left in 99.

As for the Obama thing...Obama HAS improved the economy. -_- shit takes time. Especially when most steps he tries to take are blocked one way or the other.

[TheHuckster]

As for the Obama thing...Obama HAS improved the economy. -_- shit takes time. Especially when most steps he tries to take are blocked one way or the other.

Obama has only improved the economy short-term by building up the "fiscal cliff" that Bush started which if you keep going at this rate is going to get steeper and steeper. We're in this position now where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If we extend tax cuts, we only fuck up the future even more when we do inevitably fall off, and if we end the tax cuts we fuck things up by burdening the middle class with more taxes and sending the economy hurdling back down.

We could try to mitigate the inevitable disaster that awaits by making the cliff more of a downward sloping rolling hill by applying some gradual tax hikes while the economy also improves, but I know neither Romney nor Obama will do that. By the time we are forced to address the cliff that rolling hill solution won't be available anymore.

I know, the supposed original idea was to extend these short-term solutions while finding long-term solutions which will help us when those short-term solutions run out. Unfortunately, I don't think we've figured out the long-term solutions, and as time passes it will only be more and more difficult to mitigate economic disaster.

[Andara Bledin]

Obama's been trying to address the tax cuts for pretty much his entire term.

He had a plan to keep the cuts for the people who would benefit the most (poor and middle classes) and would end the cuts for the top end who would feel it the least, but that's been stomped to death by the other side every time they've had the chance.

^-.-^