Alex Jones and 9/11 conspiracy theorists

[friendofjimmyk]

I guess this is an appropriate place for this.

I can't stand Alex Jones and his infowars.com and prisonplanet.com sites. His stupid radio show and the nutcases that follow his every word.

Why don't people see that Alex makes his living off fear mongering? Which is no different from our government who have pushed their cause based on our fear of terrorism.

I can't stand those who believe that 9/11 was an inside job. Their "evidence" is based on quotes taken out of context and misinformation. They can't believe that two GIGANTIC skyscrapers toppling down could be the cause of another high rise falling. They can't believe that two large airliner jets full of fuel could knock fireproofing off the buildng and compromise its ability to withstand extremely high heat. Combine the fire from the crash and the fires from the combustibles in the offices - no, this just can't cause the toppling of the towers! It just had to be assisted by bombs pre-planted by our government. They can't believe that the hole punched in the pentagon was caused by a plane when there are PLENTY of FUCKING pictures of a plane sitting on top of the pentagon and PLENTY OF FUCKING pictures of plane parts laying all over the ground around the fucking pentagon.


They can't believe the simple physics of it all! They can't believe that NORAD wasn't asked to stand down. They can't believe that Flight 93 was brought down by the passengers, it HAD to be brought down by the military.

They can't believe that all the popping and dust flying near the bottom was the result of elevators letting loose and crashing at the bottom floor causing a fire on the bottom level. They can't believe that lights and transformers were blowing creating the look that charges were being detonated.

No, instead they go for the sensational reasons. They go for the drama! These are television kids all grown up thinking that what they see in the movies really happens in real life and that this was all staged!

Now, I don't trust our government. I believe we are lied to on a regular basis. I think the WMD reason was complete BULLSHIT reason to go into Iraq to gain control of oil. I think that it's really, REALLY fucking hilarious that all the rebuilding we are going to do in Iraq, which, consequently, our lovely president said he would NOT do - is being contracted by Haliburton - Dick Cheney's company.

I belive that George Bush is in office by a complete hosing of the American people. I think that its absolutely fucking hilarious that the state that broke the election camel back was Florida - where Bush's brother was/is govenor.

Anyway,...I guess this could've gone under politics - but I didn't know where to fit Alex Jones and that was my real beef for starting this thread.

[Pedersen]

You're right. It is a shame that people can't accept it.

But, take a step back from it, and ask why they can't?

The American people have been lied to so much by so many high level government officials that it's now a knee jerk reaction to believe that anything said by any member of the government is automatically, at best, suspect. Hell, if one of them were to say that the sky over my house is a lovely shade of blue today, I'd have to double check and make sure it wasn't snowing or overcast or something.

So, their reasons are understandable., at least. That alone makes them an improvement over many other conspiracy theorists. No, I don't believe they're believing these explanations just for the drama. They're trying to cope with a bigger problem; namely "How can I trust a government that has become so corrupt and so secretive?"

I remember watching the first tower fall. And I remember saying to myself something like "Oh shit. The politicians are going to use this to take away everything they can." And that was my very first reaction to seeing that tower go down.

And something else I will admit: I still wonder if, maybe, just maybe, the government didn't have a more direct hand in it than we currently know. So many aspects of it just seem far too convenient for the government. I don't know.

And that's the much greater issue about it all, really. My government has become so corrupt, and so secretive, that even with experts digging through the evidence and writing their report on what happened I am still not 100% convinced that my government was not involved more directly.

And that's the issue that is being faced by the people who actively believe these theories. Have pity on them. They're trying to work through something else, and are quite lost.

[friendofjimmyk]

That's what I'm talking about...it's okay to not trust the government...we have freedom to do so. We have freedom to question, we have freedom of choice...but don't buy into something that, at times, is SO sensational and SO obviously bullshit fed by misinformation and quotes taken out of context - that your doubt of the truthiness of our government is seen as nothing more than crazy talk!

There are better, more educated, well-rounded ways to discuss your opinions about the dishonesty of government rather than to latch on to sensational conspiracy theories.

I, too, believe that on some level - somehow, there was a bit more knowledge of what happened that day then our government wants us to believe. I think their course of action was more of an inaction - they knew, they just choose not to do anything about it or didn't have "enough" information on hand and didn't act responsibly to find more information. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that they imploded those buildings - any of the three that fell! I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that NORAD was asked to stand down. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that our military shot down Flight 93. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that anything but a plane hit the pentagon.

[protege]

fojk, there *were* reports of a 9/11-style attack back in Bill Clinton's presidency (they were from 1996 IIRC, but didn't come out until after 9/11), but were dismissed because it "could never happen." I'm not trying to start things up with that.

I agree, the buildings were not imploded. The jets' impact, plus their additional weight (when WTC was designed, the largest jet then was a 707), plus the fire, contributed to that building's demise. From what I understand, those jets were chosen because they were in cross-country service...hence the fuel tanks.

[friendofjimmyk]

fojk, there *were* reports of a 9/11-style attack back in Bill Clinton's presidency (they were from 1996 IIRC, but didn't come out until after 9/11), but were dismissed because it "could never happen." I'm not trying to start things up with that.

I agree, the buildings were not imploded. The jets' impact, plus their additional weight (when WTC was designed, the largest jet then was a 707), plus the fire, contributed to that building's demise. From what I understand, those jets were chosen because they were in cross-country service...hence the fuel tanks.

I have heard about the reports of a 9/11 style attack during Bill Clinton's presidency. I actually believe that something like that could have been discovered and dismissed as "could never happen".

And on the whole imploding thing - all the arguments that those "9/11 inside job" folks use are peppered with quotes taken out of context and comparisons of the buildings vs. other high rise fires where the buildings don't collapse. There is just too many variables in the WTC buildings that have NEVER taken place with other high rise fires. Such as the size of the jets, the amount of fuel, the combustibles in the office, the fact that the fireproofing was compromised by the impact of the jets...it's just too far fetched to believe that OUR government imploded those buildings.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I believe... somehow, there was a bit more knowledge of what happened that day then our government wants us to believe. I think their course of action was more of an inaction - they knew, they just choose not to do anything about it or didn't have "enough" information on hand and didn't act responsibly to find more information. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that they imploded those buildings - any of the three that fell! I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that NORAD was asked to stand down. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that our military shot down Flight 93. I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE that anything but a plane hit the pentagon.

I agree with all of this.

I think that they knew *some*thing was going to go down - there was no way they could be that ignorant, what with being literally handed intelligence from the predecessing administration. They just couldn't have known the exact nature of the attack; nobody's omnipotent.

However, I also think that they were scheming from day 1 how to implement their nasty little agendas, and 9/11 provided them with a very convenient excuse to storm Iraq and stab liberties in the back to boot. People were scared, people were confused, they needed some sort of rock to cling to and in all the confusion, it was very easy for the scuzzbags to drive their wedges home.

And wonder of wonders, this is also the same nugget currently being used by a certain Presidential candidate - "Vote for me or Teh Terroriztz Will Get U OMG!!" (Said candidate is quite well-known for his warhawkishness and sided multiple times with the current assministration) Needless to say, I'm not buying that BS either, because I also don't believe that Islam is O NOES TEH GREATEST THREAT TO MANKIND.

However, I DO believe VERY much that extremist fundamentalism - Christian and Islamic alike - IS a HUGE threat to mankind.

[Boozy]

I think that they knew *some*thing was going to go down - there was no way they could be that ignorant, what with being literally handed intelligence from the predecessing administration.

You underestimate the Bush administration's capacity for incompetence and ignorance. They have a pretty solid record of covering their ears when someone is telling them something they don't want to hear.

[Difdi]

They can't believe that two large airliner jets full of fuel could knock fireproofing off the building and compromise its ability to withstand extremely high heat. Combine the fire from the crash and the fires from the combustibles in the offices - no, this just can't cause the toppling of the towers! It just had to be assisted by bombs pre-planted by our government.

Problem: In 1945, a B-25 bomber flew into the side of the Empire State Building. One of the design features of the World Trade Center was that it was designed to, among other things, resist such an impact.

Problem: Terminal velocity is the speed limit for any falling object; But in some video shots of the collapse of the towers, plumes of ejected debris proceed down the building faster than terminal velocity. For the ejected plumes to propagate downwards faster than terminal velocity would mean they are either not caused by pancaking floors, or that somehow normal physical laws were suspended during the collapse. The theory of exploding transformers being responsible, while it answers the problem of terminal velocity, fails because transformers don't DO that, outside of Hollywood.

Now, I don't trust our government. I believe we are lied to on a regular basis. I think the WMD reason was complete BULLSHIT reason to go into Iraq to gain control of oil. I think that it's really, REALLY fucking hilarious that all the rebuilding we are going to do in Iraq, which, consequently, our lovely president said he would NOT do - is being contracted by Haliburton - Dick Cheney's company.

Actually, there's strong evidence that there were WMDs in Iraq. But there are probably WMDs in Israel too, but the US isn't attacking them. Go figure.

[Greenday]

Actually, there's strong evidence that there were WMDs in Iraq. But there are probably WMDs in Israel too, but the US isn't attacking them. Go figure.

Israel didn't threaten to use them against us.

[MystyGlyttyr]

The only thing that bothers me about these people, or ANY conspiracy theorists, is that THEY KNOW THE TRUTH AND YOU DON'T. If you offer them evidence that they're wrong, they explain it away in some bullshit way or just flat ignore it. They think they are the ONLY people smart enough to know the truth, and all the rest of us are blind sheep just baaing after whatever gets fed to us.

It's their arrogance more than anything that drives me up the wall.

[Greenday]

The only thing that bothers me about these people, or ANY conspiracy theorists, is that THEY KNOW THE TRUTH AND YOU DON'T. If you offer them evidence that they're wrong, they explain it away in some bullshit way or just flat ignore it. They think they are the ONLY people smart enough to know the truth, and all the rest of us are blind sheep just baaing after whatever gets fed to us.

It's their arrogance more than anything that drives me up the wall.

To quote South Park:

Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.
Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?
Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.
Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.
Kyle Lets take a test sample. (to Cartman) Theres 4 of us, you're a retard, and thats one-fourth.

[AFPheonix]

The evidence for WMDs in Iraq was shaky at best, and what little there was was seized upon to start a grand little war. Hans Blix was totally overruled as he and his inspectors were getting stuff done.

(I can't type about Hans Blix without trying to spell it Hans Brix. Damn you, Team America)

[Amethyst Hunter]

Kyle: Anybody who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a retard.
Cartman: Oh, really? Well, did you know that over one-fourth of people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that one-fourth of Americans are retards?
Kyle: Yes, I'm saying one-fourth of Americans are retards.
Stan: Yeah, at least one-fourth.
Kyle Lets take a test sample. (to Cartman) Theres 4 of us, you're a retard, and thats one-fourth.

Ahh, how I love South Park.

[Greenday]

The evidence for WMDs in Iraq was shaky at best, and what little there was was seized upon to start a grand little war. Hans Blix was totally overruled as he and his inspectors were getting stuff done.

(I can't type about Hans Blix without trying to spell it Hans Brix. Damn you, Team America)

Saddam Hussein outright said he had WMD's. He did everything within his power to make it look like he had WMD's. How much proof did we really need? Normally, people lie to hide their stuff. We've never encountered someone who lied to make it seem like he DID have stuff.

[Pedersen]

Saddam Hussein outright said he had WMD's

Citation, please?