small, non needed rant

[garfalk]

i didn't really know where to put this, so...

september 11th, 2001.

i DON'T CARE.
the day after, i made jokes. sure, got a referral out of it, but it was a non-event for me.
no, i didn't want it to happen, but it did. nothing i could do.
hate me for this?
go right ahead.
i don't believe in a conspiracy, i don't believe that it was god's will (i don't believe in a god.)

some girl in class the other day said that there's a treaty preventing war on american soil.
IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A WAR, IT CAN BE WHEREVER THE HELL YOU WANT IT TO BE. also, retarded idiots don't follow treaties.

is this ill-constructed, and more than likely enough to get me killed in some states? yes.
is it what i believe? yes.

[Greenday]

As for making fun of 9/11, I don't do it. It's disrepectful to the dead.

As for making fun of people who think war can't happen because of a treaty, well, go for it. The are laws against murder and stealing but it happens anyway. Plenty of treaties have been broken in history.

[crazylegs]

Humour is well known to be a stress relief, especially black humour amongst those who have to deal with disturbing events.

[the_std]

"Disrespectful to the dead" is a silly concept. Grief is for the living, respect is for the living. Why can I make fun of someone who's alive, but not someone who is dead? What are they going to do about it? Just because they died doesn't make them any more special.

[AFPheonix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8bV9iNStEI

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to hell now.

[lordlundar]

Why can I make fun of someone who's alive, but not someone who is dead? What are they going to do about it? Just because they died doesn't make them any more special.

It's because they can't fight back that's the reason. Now don't get me wrong, self inflicted lethal stupidity is something I find amusing, a'la Darwin Awards. Making fun of someone who had a choice between a lethal fall or burning to death though is not exactly funny though.

It's a personal choice whether or not to feel anything toward 9/11. But making fun of someone who was in a choice that I would not wish on anyone is in bad taste.

[the_std]

I'm not saying it's okay to make fun of anyone who was involved, but did not cause or plan, the 9/11 attacks at all about their involvement in the attacks. Living OR dead. They did not have a choice, they were victims of circumstance. I'm saying I disagree with the "don't disrespect the dead" thing in general. I will make fun of living people, I will make fun of dead people. So if one of those people who died during the 9/11 attack did something worth making fun of while they were alive, I would still make fun of them for that. I don't accord any additional respect to the dead unless they earned it during their lifetime. As I said before, dying doesn't make you special.

I wasn't nearly as affected by the attacks as most on this board were, being Canadian and not a believer of nationalism. Yeah, it sucks that a lot of people died (estimated at over 6000). It sucks that they didn't deserve it. But it was not the greatest tragedy of our time, as it has been made out by much of the media. There are many counts of genocide, natural disasters and ruthless wars that have many more times the death count, and yet they hardly ever get talked about.

I would rather have a day of silence and prayer on April 6th (in 1994, the approximated starting date of the Rwandan Genocide), or hold a peace rally in February (when the war in Darfur began in 2003).

Yes, 9/11 put a hole in the American invulnerability mentality, it was scary and shocking that they finally had to realize that they were attackable, but they got off lightly compared to so many, and a lot don't realize how lucky they actually are.

Edit: I didn't mean to say that the pain and grief the American people feel over the loss of life from 9/11 is silly or meaningless. Innocents died, and nothing could ever lessen that heartache. And I didn't mean to say that 9/11 should be forgotten or cast aside. But there is so much fixation, so much obsession over it, like it is the only bad thing to have ever happened to this world. Yes, it's the only thing of its kind to have happened to the States, and that would be shocking to anyone, but the overall mentality about it that *I* have seen was that it was the biggest tragedy, the most unprovoked attack, the mos senseless violence to ever have been perpetrated, and I really don't agree with that. Yes, it was a big deal, and it will be a big deal if its lessons are ever forgotten, but I think that it isn't a big deal as it is made out to be.

[AdminAssistant]

My $0.02.

On March 11, 2002, the search and rescue operation was declared over (basically, they weren't finding bodies anymore). Later that day, I went with my group in NYC for Spring Break to Ground Zero - at that time a wood platform looking over what amounted to a two-block hole with scattered bits of steel. There were a lot of family members of survivors, fire crews in uniform, and military people there. It was one of the most moving things I've ever witnessed or been a part of. At that point, it was so RAW, it just looked like an open grave.

Like it or not, it is the defining event of our generation*. Over 3,000 perfectly innocent people died in a horrific manner. "Regular Americans" i.e. firefighters, EMTs, police officers, the passengers that overtook the plane in Pennsylvania became heroes. It was the first major foreign-based attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor. There will always be dedications, memorials, people will always remember where they were when they heard the news. That's just...the way it is. You certainly don't have to participate, but for many people, it's such a defining event that a big deal will always be made of it. 9/11 certainly affected me, as did the beginning of the war in 2003 (which also started during a spring break trip).

*For Americans. I can certainly understand why the rest of the world wouldn't care so much. Just as Canadians probably talk more about the Dieppe raid than Pearl Harbor.

[garfalk]

essentially americans have their asses up their heads.

[Greenday]

The way it was originally worded, it seemed like you were ripping on people who died in 9/11 because of what they went through that day. Ripping on them for losing their lives isn't cool. As for anything that happened previously in their lives, be it a time where they got trashed and did something stupid, well, go for it.

[Greenday]

essentially americans have their asses up their heads.

I'm sorry, but saying that statement came out of left field doesn't even cover it. Where the hell does that statement come from?

[Rapscallion]

Garfalk? This is a debate board, mate. The onus is on you to back up your points.

Rapscallion

[protege]

I think we have a troll in our midst

As to 9/11, it shouldn't be forgotten. Not only did an estimated 6,000 people violently lose their lives, but let's not forget the other effects. We lost our sense of security--our country hasn't been the same since. Our economy took a hit immediately after 9/11--nearly all of our airlines soon found themselves in trouble; both United and Delta would file for bankruptcy within a year, and several thousands would be out of work because of it. Let's not forget that 9/11 caused two wars, and the disposal of two oppressive regimes. Oh, and let's not forget that the aftermath has strained our country's relations with others around the world.

[Slytovhand]

Donating more than a mere 2cents.....

I agreed with the OP, basically that humour is one way that humans deal with grief - doesn't really matter what the grief relates to. Just look at all those comedians who make fun of their own disasters in life....

But from that to the above quote...????? huh?????

Making fun as part of a grieving process is one thing, but to belittle someone else's grief or grieving process (ie - memorials etc...) I think that's pushing things a bit.

(btw - that's not so say I don't agree with Greenday's take on things....)


Slyt

edit: (after being gazumped by Protege) I'd just like to point out the 'we' in your statement, Protege. There are massive 'disasters' all around the world that don't get the same amount of (dare I use the term) 'hype'. To put it bluntly - "9/11" has been disproportionately focussed on (compared to, say, 1 million Kosovo refugees, 800 000 Tutsies in Rwanda, approx 25 million Russians killed during WW2 etc etc...). As for the other effects??? Sheesh!...

[Flyndaran]

3000 people died that day. Far more die every year from automobile crashes. Far more people die every year from smoking related causes.
Far more people die every year from alcohol related causes.
Far more people die...

Do I need to go on?
Why do so many americans get their panties in a bunch over one instance of tragedy, but not the far greater every day ones?

Am I allowed to find that morbidly humorous?