As a car guy, this makes me angry....

[HEMI6point1]

A while ago I told my dad that if I ever get the financial ability to do so, I would have an auto customizer like Chip Foose resto-mod a '70 Chevelle for him, as he had to give up his last one when I came into the world.

If this was to happen, I would go the "new repro" route, with a new frame from say Street Rod Garage and a new body shell from a company called Dynacorn. New steel, no rust, sounds great, right?

Well I found out while Dynacorn does the "final assembly" here in the states, the steel is made in Taiwan! Why they can't just manufacture the steel here? I have to wonder, since there is no parent company supervision, about the corners that are cut in that factory. Seems like Dynacorn doesn't want people to know this, as their website doesn't list the manufacturing origin anywhere (I had to scour some automotive forums to find out). Shame on Dynacorn and shame on GM for licensing it as an OEM replacement part!

After learning this, I would rather have a guy like Foose resto-mod an original body than giving my dad what would basically be a chinese imitation of a classic car....

[BlaqueKatt]

Well I found out while Dynacorn does the "final assembly" here in the states, the steel is made in Taiwan! Why they can't just manufacture the steel here?

Well the answer to that question is very simple, they can't, it's no longer possible.

There are a whopping 6 steel manufacturers left in the US, and only one(owned by Kawasaki), even makes automotive grade steel. The rest make construction steel, flat rolled steel, and titanium alloys for medical equipment.

[crashhelmet]

Capitalism. They make a bigger profit off of fabricating it there and shipping it back.

[HEMI6point1]

Capitalism. They make a bigger profit off of fabricating it there and shipping it back.

I was reading on a Mustang forum (Dynacorn makes bodies for Fords and GMs) from a shop that tried their panels, even though Dynacorn claims thicker steel than an original body, in practice it's "softer" and easier to damage.

I would hate to be in an accident in a car made with one of their bodies, if this is true.

All to make a few extra dollars. Sad.

[crashhelmet]

It wouldn't be the first time tragic things have happened from cost cutting measures. Look at BP and the Deepwater Horizon incident.

[BlaqueKatt]

I would hate to be in an accident in a car made with one of their bodies, if this is true.

Just find a stunt crew, pay them around $10,000 and have them "death-proof" it.
Quentin Tarintino's worst fear is dying in a crash, it's what he does to most of his cars, and was the inspiration for his movie "deathproof".

[the_std]

All to make a few extra dollars. Sad.

It isn't "just to make a few dollars". The infrastructure no longer exists to make the steel they would need in the States. It's not "won't", it's "can't". Restomod manufacturers don't have enough volume or a large-enough customer base to have their own American steel-manufacturer, nor is there enough call in your country to have one there. They could try to open one, bankrupt themselves, and then there would be no Dynacorn. Is that better?

Everyone seems to forget this, but your country is no longer the manufacturing powerhouse it once was. It has moved on to be a science and technology leader, with less-advanced countries taking on the manufacturing processes because you cannot have a country that excels in both. The cost of living and of research means that any goods mass-manufactured in the States would not be affordable.

This is not a sign of weakness nor of "losing the American spirit". It is an evolution of your society's strong points and simply means that your weak points shift elsewhere, like relying on foreign manufacturers to produce the less-advanced brik-a-brak of your daily life.

[Andara Bledin]

It makes zero sense for anyone to do auto steel manufacturing in the US and zero sense for anyone to expect them to. The ROI is so low, it likely doesn't even make it to the profit side, while the ROI on other processes is much, much higher and the items have just as high a demand.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

It isn't "just to make a few dollars". The infrastructure no longer exists to make the steel they would need in the States. It's not "won't", it's "can't". Restomod manufacturers don't have enough volume or a large-enough customer base to have their own American steel-manufacturer, nor is there enough call in your country to have one there. They could try to open one, bankrupt themselves, and then there would be no Dynacorn. Is that better?

Everyone seems to forget this, but your country is no longer the manufacturing powerhouse it once was. It has moved on to be a science and technology leader, with less-advanced countries taking on the manufacturing processes because you cannot have a country that excels in both. The cost of living and of research means that any goods mass-manufactured in the States would not be affordable.

This is not a sign of weakness nor of "losing the American spirit". It is an evolution of your society's strong points and simply means that your weak points shift elsewhere, like relying on foreign manufacturers to produce the less-advanced brik-a-brak of your daily life.

It's no longer the powerhouse it once was because it outsourced the jobs. We're on the verge of no longer being a manufacturer of anything anymore as we continue to outsource jobs overseas. All in the name of a bigger profit.

There's no rule or law stating that 1 plant can't make all of the steel for "The Big 3." Hell, they probably all use the same foundries in Taiwan, Mexico, or wherever they get it from.

We can have a country that excels in both, but we have corporate greed that gives out multimillion dollar salaries to all executives with the word "Chief" in their title, along with golden parachutes to let them walk away clean when they screw up.

It would be one thing if they were passing all of the savings, or even a majority of them, onto the consumers but they don't. Instead, they contribute to ever growing number of unemployed workers while they make themselves richer.

It costs Apple approximately $375 to manufacture the iPad3 with WiFi & LTE capabilities and retails them for $729. That $354 profit is about a 48% markup on the device. They sold over 3 million in the opening weekend. That's over $1 Billion in profits in the opening weekend alone.

The iPad Mini costs approximately $198 to manufacture and retails for $329. That's a 40% markup and a profit of $131. They again sold about 3 million in the opening weekend alone, which is total profits of $393 Million for just the iPad Minis. Now add in the profits from the sales since their opening weekends as well as the profits of the iPad 4s, and the iPhone and iPod families.

According to their annual filings with the SEC for the Fiscal Year 2012, they had $156.5 Billion in net sales with about $65.8 Billion of that being net profit.

They can easily afford to move manufacturing back here to the US and still keep their same over inflated prices.

[HYHYBT]

Apple is exceptional in being able to maintain such a profit margin; most companies try to compete on price, and to do that you have to obtain what you sell as cheaply as possible.

(They also *are* reportedly moving some of their production to the US in the near future.)

[protege]

It isn't "just to make a few dollars". The infrastructure no longer exists to make the steel they would need in the States. It's not "won't", it's "can't". Restomod manufacturers don't have enough volume or a large-enough customer base to have their own American steel-manufacturer, nor is there enough call in your country to have one there. They could try to open one, bankrupt themselves, and then there would be no Dynacorn. Is that better?

That's exactly it. I grew up in the middle of SW PA "steel country." Our entire metro area was heavily dependent on the mills and factories. You name it, it was made here--glass (PPG, aka Pittsburgh Plate Glass), steel beams, panels, specialty metals (brass, tin, zinc, etc.), tubes, steel plate, and other items. Mills and mill-related industries were everywhere when I was younger.

By the 1970s though, the writing was on the wall--the constant threat of strikes and foreign steel were starting to eat away at market share and resources. They were already hurting by then, and once that foreign steel started coming in, it was too late. They'd waited too long to modernize the mills, and even with some newer technology, it was all over by the 1980s. Many of the mills were closed, others were downsized, and failed mergers (LTV) took care of the rest.

32 years on, after most of the heavy manufacturing base left, everything is gone--most of the mills are now shopping malls and parking lots, the Hot Metal Bridge (used to ship ingots and molten metal over the Monongahela River) now carries auto traffic, all of the rail yards, and most of the mill-serving railroads. There's no way we could start up steel again even if we wanted to. Sure, there are still a few small mills, and a couple of closed ones nearby...but none of that would support operations on a grand scale. They're too small, and in some cases, too outdated to compete.

The cost of living and of research means that any goods mass-manufactured in the States would not be affordable.

I've always said that you can either have low prices...or high salaries. You can't have both!

This is not a sign of weakness nor of "losing the American spirit". It is an evolution of your society's strong points and simply means that your weak points shift elsewhere, like relying on foreign manufacturers to produce the less-advanced brik-a-brak of your daily life.

Locally, I think we got pretty damn lucky. My city was able to adapt to changing conditions. Sure, the city grew because of steel, glass, and coal...but we're now known for healthcare, technology, education, and robotics. Right now, I think the US is in the middle of a similar transformation. It's going to take some time until things rebound, but it'll happen. I mean, we put people on the fucking moon

[bara]

Right now, I think the US is in the middle of a similar transformation. It's going to take some time until things rebound, but it'll happen. I mean, we put people on the fucking moon

We will once people pull their collective heads out of their asses and realize that the accumulation of wealth and power in a obscenely small proportion of society will destroy it more effectively than any outside threat.
I wish to God that more emphasis was put on education these days.

[mikoyan29]

This is not a sign of weakness nor of "losing the American spirit". It is an evolution of your society's strong points and simply means that your weak points shift elsewhere, like relying on foreign manufacturers to produce the less-advanced brik-a-brak of your daily life.

It has been said that manufacturing and the engineering go hand in hand though. I would somewhat agree with that statement because engineers should still see how things are made so that they can avoid some costly mistakes. There are also some aspects of manufacturing that lend themselves to improving the design. It's only a matter of time before the countries that making stuff become the countries that design the stuff too.

[protege]

It's only a matter of time before the countries that making stuff become the countries that design the stuff too.

Some of that happened in Japan after WWII. I remember reading that the British Rootes Group (the people behind the Sunbeam Alpine and Tiger sports cars) were in the process of getting their Hillman Minx design licensed to Isuzu in Japan. At the time, nobody took the Japanese seriously. Yet, some British firms actually helped the Japanese firm rebuild. They were getting licensing fees, so why not? Firms such as Lockheed (brakes), Skinner's Union (better known as S.U.) carburetors, both supplied designs. One that didn't, was Burman. They apparently closely guarded their designs.

Interesting that they should do that. Isuzu engineers used a steering system of their own design...which was *superior* to the Burman system. That wasn't the only change--the famous S.U. carbs were also built under license by Hitachi...who apparently took the things apart, and redesigned them. Both an S.U.and a Hitachi look pretty similar. The only common parts, are the jet needles.

Nissan did the same thing in the 1950s. They assembled Austin cars under license, and as such, were granted the right to use Austin parts...for their Datsun line of cars. They weren't afraid to modify the hell out of those parts, which eventually led to the Bluebird (510) and a certain two-seat sports car (240Z) which changed overnight the reputation of Japanese autos.

Both of those firms are still around...yet the firms which got them going are not. The Japanese learned early on not to sit on their asses--they're constantly coming up with new ideas. That's how they were to get a jump on US automakers, who by the '70s, had become lazy and complacent...and why they (and now the Koreans) are kicking our asses now. With that said, I have a feeling that when the Chinese get going, they'll do the same.

[mikoyan29]

Both of those firms are still around...yet the firms which got them going are not. The Japanese learned early on not to sit on their asses--they're constantly coming up with new ideas. That's how they were to get a jump on US automakers, who by the '70s, had become lazy and complacent...and why they (and now the Koreans) are kicking our asses now. With that said, I have a feeling that when the Chinese get going, they'll do the same.

This is the main reason why I have a problem with people who think its perfectly okay that we use other countries to build stuff that is designed here. Yes, China is building Apple products to our specifications and designs but it is only a matter of time before one of their manufacturing engineers comes up with a better idea and starts to produce their own version of stuff. At that point, they wont see the point of the profits coming here instead of staying there.

I'll take the car industry since that's what I know the best. With it you have the assembly plant. Near the assembly plants are plants making parts to the assembly plants. Near that are the plants that make the things that make the parts. There is alot of technical expertise that goes into that. As the suppliers started to move to Mexico and overseas, much of those tool and die plants moved with them. That is not a skill that you can build back over night (even in the days of CNC machines). There are also plants that can make various parts in a pinch. We also have the various technical centers in my neck of the woods and there are many industries that support those as well. Once other countries start building up that technical expertise, those start moving overseas as well. Fortunately, we've retained enough manufacturing here to keep that going.

The main problem I have with industries moving away is that service wages will never make up for the wages that factories can provide. Granted, even if all those plants reopend tomorrow, they wouldn't employ nearly the numbers they do now but still those are good jobs.

I just think we are shooting ourselves in the foot for the long term by chasing after the lowest labor rates.


As for the steel industry....as long as there is servicable iron in Canada and the northern Midwest, there will be steel mills here.