Whiny, so-called "nice guys"

[Boozy]

I take extreme offense to the comment that seeing a woman dressed very nicely means she doesn't lead a very full life.

I think my example might have been flawed. I didn't mean to describe someone dressed "nicely", I meant to describe someone dressed like a prostitute on her way to the ball. Someone who refuses to make a quick run to the corner store without her false eyelashes and stilettos.

I'm sure you look lovely on your days off, blas. I didn't mean for anyone here to take offense to my description, as I don't see any of our members as being like that.

[protege]

I'm gonna go sulk in the chronically single corner now....

Can I join you? Seems I'm destined to be single forever

The last, uh, dating situation didn't exactly go well. When I first met her, she made a huge speech about "superficial relationships" and their many flaws. Not long after that, I got dumped for those reasons. Needless to say, she got upset when I called her on it. Didn't like the hypocrisy--she wasn't exactly a supermodel either. ..and before I get slammed, let me say this. I'd known her for years, and would have gone out with her no matter what she looked like.

[blas87]

I probably over analyzed that too much and I apologize, I may have read it wrong as well. Because I don't gussy up JUST to go shopping or out to eat....but it's where I go while I already am gussied up. And no, I don't dress like a prostitute, unless you want me to.....

Although it does get a little old when I am constantly assumed to be superficial or high maintenance because of how I look on the weekends, the effort I put into myself.....I guess it may give some the wrong impression.

[Greenday]

I'll give you an example of what I think Boozy meant.

I have a friend who would get freaking decked out EVERY DAY just to go to class. 8am classes. She got up ridiculously early to put on on her expensive makeups and all that stuff. She went tanning like every day. Always getting her nails done. I know some girls just like to look good, but who the hell goes to a chem lab at 8 in the morning and decks their self out for it?

[MystyGlyttyr]

Yet another reason I'm glad to be asexual...

I do have to apologize for maybe doing part of wrongly leading a few of the nice guys. So many of my guy friends come to me and ask me "Mysty, why is it I can't get a girlfriend? You seem to like me!" And I have to explain the difference between how I can stand to hang out with them and what a "real" girl expects from them. They're used to being able to have burping contests or ogle other chicks and compare big nasty scars with me that they apparently forget to behave themselves around other girls...

[The Shadow]

who the hell goes to a chem lab at 8 in the morning and decks their self out for it?

College and university campuses are full of women like that. They're not there for any serious pursuit of learning, but to get their MRS degree. It's sad that so many people still have 1950s attitudes.

[Slytovhand]

I know what I didn't say...

The 'problem' with 'nice guys' is that some do really either lack 'confidence' in dealing with women - in a sexual way, or think that respect is more important than desire.

Now... 'confidence' comes in many forms, and relates to many areas of life. I may be confident if I do a tarot reading, or at work, or driving, or.... or or or. But, just because I'm confident in some areas, doesn't mean that I'm going to be confident in all areas of my life. So, taat means I'm not as 'desirable' to women... cos what seems more important is my confidence sexually, rather than anything else about me.

Is this not a valid complaint that 'nice guys' can make???

Not saying that there aren't whiners and false 'nice guys'....

[Shangri-laschild]

My best friend is friends with this guy we'll call W. When W is interested in a girl (in a situation where they both like each other and are close to dating) or starting to date, he spends tons of money on them and does everything he can to be the perfect gentleman (and manages to do it without seeming too clingy though some of them are uncomfortable with the amount of money).

Why do I dislike W? Because he's an ass. He's condecending and looks down on everyone if they don't see/do things his way. He'd also consider himself one of those nice guys. He is as nice as he can at the beginning and opens doors and spends money on them and is then an ass. Of course, when things don't work out, it's them, not him, because he is a nice guy.

On the one hand, people like that piss me off. On the other hand, I've also been friends with the actual nice guys who always seem to have trouble getting the girl, so I do agree that there is a difference between the "I'm a nice guy and never get the girl" online and the actual nice guys. I have no problem with the actual nice guys and disliked a lot of the girls in high school because of how they treated them.

[Devilboy]

One of the sad truths about the dating world is that people change

This is a common misconception that people have.
It has been my experience that when people complain that their significant other has "changed"... it has nothing to do with how their S.O. is at all.

A tiger never changes his stripes.

You can take the boy out of the city, but you can't take the city out of the boy.

People... DON'T... change.

We get older. We learn and gain wisdom. We become more mature. We gain experience.
However... that persona that we have developed in our formative years... the values and principles we have cultured from a very young age... that very core of our being... that NEVER changes.
It is who we are. It is what makes us.... us.

The person in question never actually changes. What changes is a person's perception of the other.
All too often, a person gets 'twitterpated' and neglects to really see a person for who they are.

If one pays close enough attention from the start and genuinely attempts to 'get to know' a person, then it is evident what kind of person someone is.

No amount of smokescreen behavior will hide that.

More often than not, a close friend would say something to the effect of, "I never liked him/her" or "there was always something odd about him/her".
They saw the person's true colors from the start.

Why is it that the jilted person never does?

[Flyndaran]

...People... DON'T... change....

How old are you? I've seen many people change fundamental personality characteristics.
If someone wants to change, then it usually possible to do so. If someone doesn't try not to change, then it can easily happen anyway.

[Boozy]

I recall a "Can people change?" thread on CS a while ago, and the consensus seemed to be that they don't. I didn't chime in at the time, because I held the minority opinion.

I have seen two people in my life change in very fundamental ways. And I've done it myself, in my mid-twenties.

I don't know why people are so resistant to believing that it's possible. Maybe because they are confusing the fact that you can't change others with others changing themselves?

[Greenday]

Can people change? Yes, of course. But I don't people change out of nowhere. They aren't one thing one day, then someone completely different the next. I believe it takes something pretty big in someone's life to make them change their stripes.

[Devilboy]

How old are you? I've seen many people change fundamental personality characteristics.

I'm 36.
Like I said, we get older and gain wisdom and experience.
We augment who we are, but never change our core personality makeup.

I recall a "Can people change?" thread on CS a while ago, and the consensus seemed to be that they don't. I didn't chime in at the time, because I held the minority opinion.

I have seen two people in my life change in very fundamental ways. And I've done it myself, in my mid-twenties.

I don't know why people are so resistant to believing that it's possible. Maybe because they are confusing the fact that you can't change others with others changing themselves?

We build our character up until adulthood... usually our late teens into early twenties.
Anytime before that and up to that time, a person could see a dramatic change in someone else, but usually (and this is by no means a set age) by 25 we are who we are.

Take a look at people who have had the same friends since high school/college.
They are still good friends later in life... in their 30's... in their 40's... in their 50's and so on.
Why is that?
Because they never changed who they were. They are still the same people they were when they first met.
If they changed in a dramatic way that some would suggest, then there is an extremely high likelihood that they would no longer be friends.

Intimate relationships aren't any different.
People never change.
What changes is how some people perceive things.

What seems different is in an intimate relationship, sometimes people put on an act... adopt a persona that is alien to them.
They pretend to like things they never liked before, pretend to be interested in things they were never interested in before... act in ways they never acted before... all to win the affections of another person.
These are shallow and superficial 'smokescreens' that don't last forever.
They are a change at all in the person... but a alteration of their normal behavior.
When a person's true colors begin to show through, the dejected person sees this as the person "changing".
In reality, they never changed... they just dropped an act.
It can appear that they have changed because of this, but it was only an act and not who they really are.

Yes, you can change certain aspects of your life.
Your job, your home... you can gain new friends, discover new tastes... you can lose weight, muscle up... lose money or get rich... but you NEVER change who you are.

This is where people get confused.

"Changes" like the aforementioned are all on the surface. Anyone can do those things if they put their mind to it... but it never changes who you are.
They aren't "real" changes. They are only minor additions or subtractions to a person as a whole... they don't affect your core being.

[AFPheonix]

I don't know about that. Some people really can change, either because something happened to alter their reality and they had to adapt, or perhaps they've done something mind altering like drugs or had a brain injury. THOSE will change your inner person.
My father is an example. Most of his life he was a very intense person. He frankly had an anger problem. As he aged however, he started getting dementia and his demeanor and personality did indeed change. It was kind of frustrating for my mom because he simply wasn't who he was anymore. This wasn't a case of someone dropping their act after awhile. Had he not died in 2006, they would have celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary yesterday.

I've seen people change due to PTSD. I've seen people convert to a religion and totally change. It's entirely possible.

[IDrinkaRum]

My husband is one of those "nice guys" that gets overlooked by a lot of women (that and because of his weight). I actually didn't like him when I first met him, but my mom was like, "It'll get you out of the house, you'll have someone to talk to & to take you out. You don't have to marry the guy."