Whiny, so-called "nice guys"

[Seshat]

My first thoughts after flicking through one of the links from IDAR's post, was... why is it ok for women to be insecure, but not for guys?

If you read through more of the site, you'll find that they think it's NOT okay for women to be insecure, demanding, needy little whiners either.

In fact, the whole 'women wait, men ask' thing is a holdover from Victorian middle-class and upper-class sensibilities. 'Good Girls' didn't like or want sex, after all. Their job was to attract a man of suitable standards and quality.

Of course, women who aren't insecure find that they often get called bitches.....

[smileyeagle1021]

arrogant (Noooo.... you don't say!! )

and apparently very sarcastic... why must you be on another continent

Very true Slyt. Socially, I'm very awkward. I tend to be shy and quiet when you don't know me. So why is it bad for me, but perfectly okay for women to be insecure?

But get me in a chem lab, and you'd be amazed about how I go through my experiments and procedures like it's nothing. Easy like Sunday morning.

oh, Greenday, I know exactly what you mean... I can't even send an email on a dating sight without feeling completely insecure, vulnerable, and awkward... hell there's a person on AIM right now on one of the message boards I'm on that said he was open to, nay desired, random text messages... I can't get the nerve to actually open up a message window...
But set out a company's books in front of me and I can make you very pretty looking financials like there's no tomorrow, I can give you (or at least try to, it's been a while since managerial accounting) all the investment stats for that company and whether or not it's wise to buy stocks, I can close the period for them, I can do inventory, you name it, if it involves the books I either can do it, or will no how to within a year or two.
Sadly accounting just isn't that sexy... and being able to flirt with confidence is.

[AdminAssistant]

Of course, women who aren't insecure find that they often get called bitches.....

And women who actively pursue men are often called 'clingy' or 'desperate'. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by Mom and Sis that girls should never ask out a guy, that if a guy is interested in you, he'll ask. I still have a hard time approaching guys, because if they were interested in me, then he'd come talk to me, right? I shouldn't have to do the heavy lifting, because I'm a girl. It's a hard thing to get over.

[Slytovhand]

If you read through more of the site, you'll find that they think it's NOT okay for women to be insecure, demanding, needy little whiners either.

In fact, the whole 'women wait, men ask' thing is a holdover from Victorian middle-class and upper-class sensibilities. 'Good Girls' didn't like or want sex, after all. Their job was to attract a man of suitable standards and quality.

Of course, women who aren't insecure find that they often get called bitches.....

Damn... I knew there was something I didn't put in my post

Yes, I know, you're quite right... I just forgot that bit when I was writing. But while that attitude is changing, still, those women with the self-confidence to ask a guy out probably will ask a guy who has confidence in himself.. the right sort of confidence (which, ironically enough, is the sort it would take to ask her out first )

I would hope that merely having confidence or self-assurance don't get called bitchy.. that should be reserved for the real bitches.

[Boozy]

I would hope that merely having confidence or self-assurance don't get called bitchy.. that should be reserved for the real bitches.

There is a difference between being a bitch and being assertive. I am assertive, and I don't think I've ever been called a bitch. I'm tired of bitches claiming to be merely "assertive", much like I'm tired of emotionally manipulative men claiming to be "Nice Guys."

But that's a topic for another thread. I'm thinking of starting one.

[AFPheonix]

If you read through more of the site, you'll find that they think it's NOT okay for women to be insecure, demanding, needy little whiners either.

In fact, the whole 'women wait, men ask' thing is a holdover from Victorian middle-class and upper-class sensibilities. 'Good Girls' didn't like or want sex, after all. Their job was to attract a man of suitable standards and quality.

Of course, women who aren't insecure find that they often get called bitches.....

Truly secure women can own the the words bitch or cunt. Neither bother me unless I've truly earned them for bad behavior.

And I'm trying to think of situations in which insecure women are attractive. Maybe I'm a weirdo, but insecure women tend to turn people off as bad as insecure men.

[Slytovhand]

I am assertive, and I don't think I've ever been called a bitch.

I can if you want

I agree - assertiveness and bitchiness (or assholeness) are not the same thing... unless it's when someone just isn't getting what they want (pretty standard definition there... I think there's a forum about that... CS or something?? )

And I'm trying to think of situations in which insecure women are attractive

Really?? That's the problem with a lot of guys - they're looking for 'someone to save'. That damsel in distress motif is still popular (I mean, how many women keep tripping over when running away from the big nasty alien - instead of grabbing the nearest flamethrower... obviously, this doesn't include Ripley). Though... once you've been with someone like that after a while, you soon get really sick and tired of it.

Truly secure women can own the the words bitch or cunt. Neither bother me unless I've truly earned them for bad behavior.

You should work with me... those are standard day to day words here (course, I'm night-shift, and we tend to throw lots of crap at each other...)

[AFPheonix]

I can if you want




Really?? That's the problem with a lot of guys - they're looking for 'someone to save'. That damsel in distress motif is still popular (I mean, how many women keep tripping over when running away from the big nasty alien - instead of grabbing the nearest flamethrower... obviously, this doesn't include Ripley). Though... once you've been with someone like that after a while, you soon get really sick and tired of it.

That's exactly my point. Perhaps initially it's attractive to some men, but ultimately those kinds of chicks are the ones that get really clingy and you have to beat them off with a stick to leave the relationship. Not attractive. The inevitable stalking that happens after isn't too attractive either.