Why are some people so anti Medicine?

[crashhelmet]

I'm typically anti-pharmacetics when it comes to psychological issues. As with most things, there are exceptions to the rules.

The reason I'm anti-drugs is that in many, if not most, cases, the patient is diagnosed and prescribed meds by their quack doctor before they even walk through the door. In other cases, they're prescribed meds because their parents don't want to deal with their problems.

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As we have pointed out in other threads, there is no scientific evidence of how these drugs work for conditions like depression or ADD/ADHD. They only know that it "works" and it "works" because it puts the user into a zombie-like state.

Then you get the quacks doctors that convince you that you need the drugs because when you try and come off them, you go through withdrawal and show the symptoms of your alleged disorder.

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But quacks doctors make just as much money from seeing you for 15 minutes as they do for an hour. They can fit more people in that 1 hour slot by switching to 15 minute sessions and sending you off with a nice shiny prescription. Not to mention the kick backs they get from big pharma.

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[fireheart17]

I'm typically anti-pharmacetics when it comes to psychological issues. As with most things, there are exceptions to the rules.

The reason I'm anti-drugs is that in many, if not most, cases, the patient is diagnosed and prescribed meds by their quack doctor before they even walk through the door. In other cases, they're prescribed meds because their parents don't want to deal with their problems.

I've heard of some teachers making referrals because they believe that the kid has ADHD, but more likely just wants a classroom of docile children. I plan on NOT being one of those teachers, although I will most likely end up referring some anyway depending on my role. (If I'm the "special ed" guru, I'll end up doing the referrals, if I'm a mainstream teacher, not so much)
In fact, in my state at the bare minimum, a teacher cannot refer a child to a GP or specialist, they can only refer them onto a psychologist if needed.

Then you get the quacks doctors that convince you that you need the drugs because when you try and come off them, you go through withdrawal and show the symptoms of your alleged disorder.

I've heard of SSRI withdrawal syndrome, although I'm not sure if there's a MAOI equivalent. I didn't so much see the withdrawals coming off of them, in fact, I didn't see a difference between me being on them and me being off them.

But quacks doctors make just as much money from seeing you for 15 minutes as they do for an hour. They can fit more people in that 1 hour slot by switching to 15 minute sessions and sending you off with a nice shiny prescription. Not to mention the kick backs they get from big pharma.

Depends on the doc. My GP seems to only prefer medications as a last resort, although for a while, she would bump up my medication as though it was lollies whenever I had a really bad anxiety episode. Now that I'm off them and she's seen me off them, she's willing to try diet, exercise and lifestyle to help manage it better.


Let's try and take this thread off in another direction and look at anti-medication people for EVERY SINGLE OTHER NON-PSYCHIATRIC problem. Thoughts?

[SongsOfDragons]

Non-psychiatric... Didn't Steve Jobs die because he suddenly stopped taking his cancer stuff?

The less said about anti-vaccionation dipshits the better...

I've not seen any anti-meds people for my illness - epilepsy - yet. Except for in history. I know there are other methods that can control difficult epilepsy, like the ketogenic diet, but that's when meds have failed to work, and it's easy to see when they do. I need to change my meds in the next few years because the one I'm on now does terrible shit to unborn children and I won't be on it for that, but I know at least one alternative to what I'm taking makes my fits worse. >.< but not taking any at all is a bad idea!

[Greenday]

Then you get the quacks doctors that convince you that you need the drugs because when you try and come off them, you go through withdrawal and show the symptoms of your alleged disorder.

So someone whose body produces an imbalance of brain chemicals goes off of their medication and all of a sudden there body starts creating an imbalance again? Not a huge shocker. A lot of people start taking their medicine, start feeling better, and think that they no longer need their medication so they stop taking it only to start feeling like they used to. They were feeling better because of the medication so stopping medication naturally will stop the feeling good.

[Ginger Tea]

I don't know about Jobbs and his decision to stop taking his meds, it might have been like my dad and his prescription for one of the adult forms of Leukaemia, he had been on numerous trials some worked wonders for his ward yet they did nowt for him.
He did eventually have one that for the most part worked, but I think it was his GP that suggested not taking it rather than him saying "Sod this for a game of soldiers."
The chemo made him sick as chemo does, then the pills just made it worse. it wasn't a spur decision, the GP spoke to all of us as a family as it would be affecting him more and more when he was at home, he would spend the odd week at the hospital for the chemo then come home, as it wore on he would then spend a brief stint at a hospice before given the all clear to return home.

So Jobbs might have felt no change in his body due to the meds and his doctor might have told him that unlike x% where the drugs worked, he was in the y where it didn't.

[Andara Bledin]

It's also possible that the disease had spread to the point where continuing the meds would only prolong his life for a very short time and degrade his quality of life more than it was worth.

My old boss had testicular cancer (seriously, guys, get your junk checked - caught early, it's highly treatable) and for a while the chemo and the drugs were helping. Eventually, however, it metastasized and at the end, the drugs weren't going to help much at all and he'd always despised the way they affected his mind, so he stopped taking them and chose to die with his faculties intact.

[crashhelmet]

So someone whose body produces an imbalance of brain chemicals goes off of their medication and all of a sudden there body starts creating an imbalance again? Not a huge shocker. A lot of people start taking their medicine, start feeling better, and think that they no longer need their medication so they stop taking it only to start feeling like they used to. They were feeling better because of the medication so stopping medication naturally will stop the feeling good.

I'm talking more about those that are wrongly diagnosed with having something that needs those meds. When they stop taking them, they get that "chemical imbalance" caused by the withdrawal and they're told it's proof that they actually have the problem.

[crashhelmet]

It's also possible that the disease had spread to the point where continuing the meds would only prolong his life for a very short time and degrade his quality of life more than it was worth.

My old boss had testicular cancer (seriously, guys, get your junk checked - caught early, it's highly treatable) and for a while the chemo and the drugs were helping. Eventually, however, it metastasized and at the end, the drugs weren't going to help much at all and he'd always despised the way they affected his mind, so he stopped taking them and chose to die with his faculties intact.

I read one article that said Jobs doomed himself because he tried "new age" or homeopathic treatments instead of the norm.

As for testicular cancer, a cheap way to test for it without the embarrassment of going to the doctor is for a guy to use a home pregnancy test. Apparently, the same indicators that confirm if a girl is pregnant can be found in tumors and help identify if a guy has cancer or not.

[fireheart17]

I read one article that said Jobs doomed himself because he tried "new age" or homeopathic treatments instead of the norm.

As for testicular cancer, a cheap way to test for it without the embarrassment of going to the doctor is for a guy to use a home pregnancy test. Apparently, the same indicators that confirm if a girl is pregnant can be found in tumors and help identify if a guy has cancer or not.

I still remember the reddit cartoon for that.

Next time I buy a preggo test, I'm making my SO wee on one too

[Panacea]

I've known people like this. They don't "believe" in medicine for psychological problems even though they or their family members could really use it. I know I have been greatly helped by some of the pills I have been on so I don't understand peoples objection. Is it the money? Do they don't trust it? Or do they just want to play senseless martyr and "tough it out"?

This is such a complicated issue. There are a lot of factors that play into whether or not someone should take medications or not.

When it comes to mental illness, there is SUCH a stigma in this country about it that I didn't tell my colleagues for three years that I'd been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Because I've been diagnosed with major depression (after my dad died) I will pay through the nose for life insurance, assuming I can get it at all . . . even though I was not and have never been suicidal (I specifically told my shrink the reason I was there was because I WANTED to get better and be able to enjoy life again). Le sigh.

That being said, there is an inherent conflict of interest between the pharmaceutical industry and the health care industry right now. Mass marketing of drugs has created a path of least resistance mentality as family practice docs write scripts for meds their patients don't need but saw on TV and become convinced they "need." I firmly believe that only psychiatrists should be allowed to write prescriptions for pysch meds.

And yet, there is a huge problem in that most psychiatrists only write prescriptions, which gives them incentive to medicate patients who really need psychotherapy. Because meds are cheaper, insurance companies don't want to pay for therapy. Psychiatrists have become little more than pill pushers; it's easier to do that than do therapy (which is difficult) that doesn't pay as well.

So it's easy for me to see why the public is soured on the medical profession. Doctors don't build relationships with patients the way the used to. You see them for 10 minutes, and get ordered a bunch of tests that are expensive, often unnecessary, and are never explained to the patient. Until we pay providers to actually talk to their patients, these conflicts will never go away.

Personally, I don't like taking medicine, as I believe it will make my immune system more sluggish. I see this in my skin, when I put any kind of ointment on it, it keeps getting drier and drier over time, I see it in my hair, used to be strong and silky, started using conditioner, frail as hell now. I'm afraid of weakening my immune system to the point of having a cold every damned year.

Well, most skin lotions/ointments and shampoo have alcohol in them, which is why your skin keeps getting dry. I don't use any lotion on my skin at all. I keep out of the sun

Non-psychiatric... Didn't Steve Jobs die because he suddenly stopped taking his cancer stuff?

The less said about anti-vaccionation dipshits the better...

I've not seen any anti-meds people for my illness - epilepsy - yet.

Yeah, not taking your seizure meds would be very bad, potentially lethal, for you.

As for Jobs, he died because he had pancreatic cancer . . . one of the most deadly and aggressive cancers out there. The surprise is not that he died, but that he lived so long with it. He stopped taking his meds because he made a choice; he realized he was dying anyway and chose to exercise some control over his death.

[HYHYBT]

I firmly believe that only psychiatrists should be allowed to write prescriptions for pysch meds

That would solve nothing while creating extra trouble and expense. As you mentioned, many psychiatrists aren't doing anything but writing a prescription anyway, so why make the patient pay the extra expense of going to one? Especially: assuming it is a properly diagnosed case where, say, an sntidepressant is the correct, ongoing treatment, why shouldn't a regular doctor be able to do the ongoing chechups and renewals?

[Andara Bledin]

That would solve nothing while creating extra trouble and expense. As you mentioned, many psychiatrists aren't doing anything but writing a prescription anyway, so why make the patient pay the extra expense of going to one? Especially: assuming it is a properly diagnosed case where, say, an sntidepressant is the correct, ongoing treatment, why shouldn't a regular doctor be able to do the ongoing chechups and renewals?

By that thinking, why go to a specialist for anything? Your GP should be able to do it all, right?

[Hyena Dandy]

Though I guess it could also apply to people like me who think anti medicine people need to get with the fucking times.

I think they should take meds, but I don't think it's a horrible societal problem if they don't.

I think if there's something you don't like about your mental state, you should be able to work with someone to change it. I believe one of the pre-requisites for a psych diagnosis is 'distressing.' If you're not distressed...

Especially: assuming it is a properly diagnosed case where, say, an sntidepressant is the correct, ongoing treatment, why shouldn't a regular doctor be able to do the ongoing chechups and renewals?

Because your regular doctor is not trained for that?

There may be psychiatrists who do that, but I think that those are shitty psychiatrists. The psychiatrist's job is supposed to be more than just writing prescriptions. I agree many psychiatrists don't, but I think that they should, and I think most people who I've known would agree.

My psychiatrists have never been prescription mills. I've had four of them. One of them I connected with as a kid, but he kind of turned into a condescending jerk as I got older, 'cause he still treated me like I was 8. The next one was amazing, I got on with her personally, but I left because she stopped returning calls (She and her son both have some major physical illnesses, and she had a long bout of sickness.) The next one I felt didn't trust that I would be able to succeed at what I wanted to do in life, despite my disability. I'm with a great one now, and she tries to minimize the amount of medicine I take.

A GP is not there to listen to your feelings, and try to judge if the meds are working. Also, GPs don't need to keep up with the latest advances in psychiatric medicine and treatment, so they can recommend them if they're good. That's a psychiatrist's job.

Besides, correct diagnosis IS important. And the psychiatrist needs to make the diagnosis, and identify the right treatment for it. And know how to carry out that treatment.

Yes, some psychiatrists do just give you drugs and ignore you. But those are the ones who are BAD AT THEIR JOBS.

[HYHYBT]

By that thinking, why go to a specialist for anything? Your GP should be able to do it all, right?

That is clearly and obviously not a rational destination from my post unless you choose to read into it a lot that's not there.