About Selective Honesty

[blas87]

Let me define, at least how I see, that word if you're confused.

Other than lying, like most people do, some people see withholding the truth, just not speaking of it, to be the better way. A good example would be, a guy I used to date would break plans with me by before me finishing getting ready, up and leaving with his friends and refusing to answer his phone until he was safely several miles away, and then of course I was "crazy" for reacting how I did, that he wasn't trying to hide anything, he just didn't want to fight about it.

That one's merely from a relationship standpoint. There are plenty of others, I'm sure. I mean, I guess every situation is different. But selective honesty is how my last relationship failed. My last boyfriend figured I didn't need to know what he was up to..ever. And I don't mean in a truly crazy girlfriend way, I mean in a way where odd amounts of time could go by and I'd barely hear from him, and then when I did, it'd be "I'm at my ex wife's house." Oh, that's nice. Could have told me that before you left? No? But of course, I'm being insecure and crazy for thinking that way, not to mention condenscending when I say that if he doesn't feel the need to be honest with me, I feel no need to keep him around.

People and their lies just piss me the hell off. Selective honesty IS lying.

There's a lot of bullshit going around at work. In order to...avoid pissing me off, I guess, our shift lead and trainer decided they were just going to manipulate it so it looked like I only had to play substitute trainer. Then it started becoming more frequent. Finally, the last day of work last weekend, I find out, they intend to keep me training others, because trainer is too overwhelmed. Nope, couldn't be honest from the get-go, just make it look like it was a coincidence or that it just had to be that way. And of course, they did it that way so I couldn't say no.

Sorry for sounding petty but I just can't fucking stand cowardly behavior like that. If you know you're doing something hurtful towards another person, just fucking say where you're going or what you're doing. THEN if they want to get mad, it can be on the other person. Don't fucking ignore your phone or pretend to play dumb like "Oh hi, how are you? Ya know, just hanging with the ex!" or "Well, we just kinda figured you could help her train full time because she's too busy!"

Those two I work with. If you're in a paid position to personally deal with people on a higher level....I lose even more respect for you if you pull cowardly bullshit like that, and pretend to not get what I mean. I know most people in positions of power tend to be cowards and try to push the blame downhill, but it just irks me that people act that way just to try to make themselves look innocent.

And I'm beyond sick and tired of people getting mad when the secrets do come out. YES someone was going to get mad or hurt. Don't stick your nose up, take your little moral high road and call me "Crazy" or say that I have "issues" that I need to work out and I need to leave you alone to be happy and live your life, or that I'm trite and condenscending because all I ever wanted was the fucking truth!

[Nekojin]

What you're talking about is called "lies of omission" - where important information is deliberately withheld even when knowing that information would be desired, if the person knew about it.

[Panacea]

The motivation behind the issue is what makes a lie, or a lie of omission, poor behavior.

For example, blas's example of her dick boyfriend is one where his motivation was his own self interest, not the interest of blas or the relationship. He behaved selfishly, which is what made what he did a dick move.

But if someone were to withhold information because they believed it would hurt the person in question, then things become a bit more complicated.

Let's say you're given an invitation to go some place where you know that someone you just can't stand is there. Making an excuse not to go isn't necessarily selfish; avoiding a conflict you know will spoil the evening for everyone is a good thing. Or, when you're offended by someone, pretending you are not for the sake of someone you care about is still selective honesty but the right thing to do if you deflect unnecessary conflict.

[BlaqueKatt]

But if someone were to withhold information because they believed it would hurt the person in question, then things become a bit more complicated.

That actually turns it into an act of hubris*, "oh I know you just couldn't handle the truth, you poor little thing" so I'm going to lie to you twice to "protect your delicate feelings". or to put it simply, "you don't deserve to know the truth".


*You're presuming to know another person's thoughts based on your own, and making a unilateral decision on their behalf without their input, it's quite unfair and hurtful when they do eventually discover the truth.

[Greenday]

I don't consider it lying to not tell someone something. I do consider it dishonest though. It's a weird matter of definitions that in the end, usually doesn't make a difference.

[siead_lietrathua]

That actually turns it into an act of hubris*, "oh I know you just couldn't handle the truth, you poor little thing" so I'm going to lie to you twice to "protect your delicate feelings". or to put it simply, "you don't deserve to know the truth".

i kinda disagree with this. some things you can gauge how a person will react beforehand and decide whether or not to tell them things based on it. i'm not gonna go down the heavy trail of homophobic parents or abusive partners and the like.
to take a lighter stance, there is always the old stereotype questions that we all know (was your ex a better lover, how about those inlaws, do i look fat in dis, etc) and that are just traps with no way to win unless the right answers also happen to be the honest ones.

don't get me wrong, open and honest communication if vital in a romantic relationship, and while reading the original post, i could totally sympathize with the anger. my secondary does the vanish-off-earth thing too, and forgets to tell me because he's so overworked. those little communication breakdowns can really fuck up a relationship, and the idea of a partner intentionally hurting someone they love breaks my brain a bit.

that being said, one doesn't have to extend the same level of openness and honesty we give our lovers to every person we come into contact with. after all, it's none of grandma's business i married a heathen, my political leanings are not something i discuss with coworkers, and my parents don't need to hear about the shenanigans my partners and i get up to.

so i'm admittedly on the fence with this one. i can see where lying by omission can suck, like in the OP, but i also know when it can be needed.

[Racket_Man]

I am reminded of a quote from the Star Trek novel called "Strangers from the Sky" (and I am paraphrasing a bit since I do not have the novel in front ot me).

"IT is not a lie to withold the truth. Some truths are best left unspoken."

[HYHYBT]

I realize this isn't quite the same thing as in the OP, but it's related... is it only because I've always been single that the notion of even *wanting* to know where another person (other than a child you're responsible for) is all the time, much less feeling hurt that they don't always tell in advance, is totally foreign?

As for whether not telling something is the same as lying... well, it depends. Unless not mentioning it is done so as deliberately to give the impression that it's false, no, it's not lying *at all.* Whether it falls under lying or not, it does matter the circumstances: does the person have any business knowing? Will their knowing serve any purpose other than making them upset? Did they ask? For example, when I was little, Mom once painted the kitchen walls dark red. One visitor, on seeing it, announced that it looked like the inside of a cathouse. Would it really not have been better for her to keep that statement to herself?

[siead_lietrathua]

I realize this isn't quite the same thing as in the OP, but it's related... is it only because I've always been single that the notion of even *wanting* to know where another person (other than a child you're responsible for) is all the time, much less feeling hurt that they don't always tell in advance, is totally foreign?

when you don't live with a partner, you kinda have to plan to see each other, and knowing each other's schedules is a part of that.
so, for example, if you and a partner usually plan to see each other, say, thursday nights. when you call to see where they wanna go that night, and find out they're in a different province or etc, kinda makes you wonder why they skipped telling you beforehand. especially if it's the kinda trip that requires a few weeks of planning for work/ hotels/ etc.

i really don't care where my partners are all day every day. but if it's involving a plane trip to another state or a week away somewhere, it's nice to know ahead of time so i can know not to expect to see them/ can plan other social events.

[Kheldarson]

I realize this isn't quite the same thing as in the OP, but it's related... is it only because I've always been single that the notion of even *wanting* to know where another person (other than a child you're responsible for) is all the time, much less feeling hurt that they don't always tell in advance, is totally foreign?

I'd say kinda. An SO is someone you've come to trust and rely on, but trust still relies on certain acts. Like being open about your activities.

Put it this way: you've got a close friend whom you regularly hang out with. They don't show at the normal time. No excuse. You'd forgive them the first few times, right? But if it became a regular occurrence, you'd ask what's up. And if told nothing or that it wasn't your business, you'd question the relationship, yes? Because if they don't trust you to tell you what's going on, then how can you be friends?

Same thing with a SO.

[blas87]

Some people feel a certain way towards others, that nothing is anyone else's business. Some people they may feel inclined to tell what they're up to, some they don't. But, they need to realize that it's harmful if they are doing something they know would hurt another person without telling them.

[HYHYBT]

i really don't care where my partners are all day every day. but if it's involving a plane trip to another state or a week away somewhere, it's nice to know ahead of time so i can know not to expect to see them/ can plan other social events.

Of course. Perhaps I misunderstood the original complaint; the part I had in mind was finding out he was at Soandso's house and being upset at not knowing in advance they were going there. If that was intended to include the "missing for days" and "we were supposed to do x now" all in the same incident, that's vastly different.

[blas87]

Or, in my case, if it were his ex wife, and part of our problem was that he was not honest with how close they still stay, it's extremely hurtful to not hear from him all day and then find out that he stayed and hung out for a bit after they exchanged the kids.

But, the way he figured, he didn't say he wasn't going to do it, he just chose not to tell me. I don't know if some men are just that....retarded, or if they just think they're avoiding a fight or trouble, but eventually, someone's going to wonder why they haven't heard from you all day. I shouldn't say men, I guess I should say people, because I'm sure girls do it too.

Ya know, honesty really hurts a LOT less. It really does. And if those morons would just realize, being honest in the first place.....if the other person chooses to get mad after that point, it makes the other person look silly when they choose to go off about it.