Stupid Useless Advice

[Rageaholic]

Some advice is just stupid.

Example: Telling an alcoholic to quit drinking is not helpful. It doesn't take much psychology to understand that it is more complex than that. Just like any addiction or problem, you need actual strategies to cope with it.

Then there's the people who say "man up" "tough it out" or "put on your big boy panties". Guess what? THAT. IS. NOT. HELPFUL. If it was that simple, then no one would have any problems.

People sometimes.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Some advice is just stupid.

Example: Telling an alcoholic to quit drinking is not helpful. It doesn't take much psychology to understand that it is more complex than that. Just like any addiction or problem, you need actual strategies to cope with it.

Agreed.

Then there's the people who say "man up" "tough it out" or "put on your big boy panties". Guess what? THAT. IS. NOT. HELPFUL. If it was that simple, then no one would have any problems.

There are times when it is fitting advice. Usually when dealing with people who ask for advice, reject all suggestions before trying them out because they're not the miracle answer they were wishing for and they're unwilling to put forth their own effort to resolve the problem.

To those people I'll then say "Well if you're not willing to do a goddamned thing about what you're complaining about, all that's left to suggest is that you just fucking deal with it."

I'm talking about people who complain about...well to use an example Microsoft Windows. They complain, bitch and moan about how much it sucks and I suggest things.

Try Linux - "Nothing works on it! It's too hard to learn! Only geeks and freaks use it!"

Buy an Apple Computer - "They're expensive! You need special equipment! Only trendy douchebags use Apple!"

Well you don't game and only surf the web and use Facebook, get a tablet - "Tablets are expensive! They're too easy to break! Someone could steal it! Apps cost money!"

Do without - "But I need to download my man-on-goat porn! I can't function without tweeting the size of my last dump! I must share that kitten pic I found on Facebook!"

After all that, what else can one do but suggest that the person just put on their big boy panties and quit bitching?

I do agree that too many people jump straight to the "Nut Up" class of "advice" (note the sneer quotes) when it's not warranted. But there are times when "Nut up or Shut up!" is the best that one can do for someone...

...apart from suggesting that they be "jammed head first into a sceptic tank and would they like some help?" that is.

[HYHYBT]

I'm talking about people who complain about...well to use an example Microsoft Windows. They complain, bitch and moan about how much it sucks and I suggest things.

That's just venting. If they're not asking for a solution and they like the alternatives even less, it's venting. Nothing wrong with that unless they never shut up, and even yhen, "man up" is no answer because there wasn't a question.

Setting that aside... even when trying to solve a problem, it's incredibly frustrating to have people offer advice that is useless, unworkable, or otherwise unhelpful *in your specific situation* and then insult you or say you 're unwilling to do anything just because you don't do what they tell you. For example, perhaps you're looking for work and they "help" by showing you ads for things you're in no way qualified to do or are physically incapable of doing. Usually, when I hear the complaint you mention and it's not venting, it turns out to be something slong those lines.

Or: IF the subject comes up, I may well complain about how horrible Windows 8 is and/or the high price of Macs. My relevant decisions on the subject are, for now, made; there's no point in offering advice, and I'm unlikely to follow it unless either it's what I was going to do anyway or you bring substantial new information.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

That's just venting. If they're not asking for a solution and they like the alternatives even less, it's venting. Nothing wrong with that unless they never shut up, and even yhen, "man up" is no answer because there wasn't a question.

<sigh> Do I really have to write an essay on the back story of my examples? Suffice it to say that the person was asking me to fix something that even Microsoft could/would not fix. That being Windows Vista.

Setting that aside... even when trying to solve a problem, it's incredibly frustrating to have people offer advice that is useless, unworkable, or otherwise unhelpful *in your specific situation* and then insult you or say you 're unwilling to do anything just because you don't do what they tell you.

Ok. Let me give another example. I posted something awhile back.

In a nutshell someone asked for a way to get an inexpensive hunting rifle so they could go hunting that season with rather limited funds. I proposed a solution that could have him into a bambi-blaster for less than his budget. But since my advice was not useful to him he blasted me.

Why was my advice not useful to him? Because I didn't magically find a way to put a new Rem 700 with uber-scope into his grubby little dick skinners for $300. Something that is not likely to happen unless he manages to find someone selling one that "fell off the back of the truck".

AKA...stolen.

So in that case, I feel that my telling him to either buy a cheap gun to go hunting now, or save up and get his pretty pretty princess gun next hunting season.

Or: IF the subject comes up, I may well complain about how horrible Windows 8 is and/or the high price of Macs. My relevant decisions on the subject are, for now, made; there's no point in offering advice, and I'm unlikely to follow it unless either it's what I was going to do anyway or you bring substantial new information.

Ok, let me ask you this. If you were to come to me and ask "Gosh! I'm having so much problems with Windows, what can I do to get away from them?" and I offer Linux or Apple as a solution, with your mind already being made up and you being unlikely to take me up on my suggestion unless I can make an argument that hasn't been made many times over already...

Don't you think it would frustrate me that you came to me for advice and then just blew me off? Don't you think that in such circumstances I might get a bit snippy?

Wouldn't you be equally snippy if I wasted your time asking you for advice that I never planned on taking in the first place?

[HYHYBT]

Do I really have to write an essay on the back story of my examples?

No, but you don't have to pretend that the stories *with* the parts you just filled in are the same as what you originally presented, either. Why would you expect responses to take into consideration the parts of the story you didn't tell?

But since my advice was not useful to him he blasted me.

His blasting you for not having advice he wanted to follow is a different matter. I was speaking only on the part of his not *trying* advice before deciding against it.

Don't you think it would frustrate me that you came to me for advice and then just blew me off? Don't you think that in such circumstances I might get a bit snippy?

Of course. But again, you didn't limit your original post to situations where someone came to you asking for advice. You just said they were complaining, which makes the advice sound unsolicited. Because I have an at least moderately functioning brain, I don't ask advice in situations where I've firmly made up my mind. (I might, though, ask if there are other possibilities I hadn't thought of.)

Wouldn't you be equally snippy if I wasted your time asking you for advice that I never planned on taking in the first place?

Well, throwing out "wasted your time" as loaded... it depends. Asking advice when you know in advance you're not going to follow it no matter what it is is of course infuriating. Even after your additions, though, that doesn't sound like what happened. It sounds more like they went in *hoping* you had a way to do the apparently impossible, and would have taken your advice if that had turned out to be true.

It sounds like they asked advice, and then didn't like the advice they got. Setting aside whether the advice was good or not and whether what they really wanted was possible or not, because those are somewhat side issues (and that they were rude about it even more separate) they didn't follow the advice because they didn't like it. That, in and of itself at least, is perfectly normal. That's why it's called "asking for advice" rather than "turning this decision over to someone else."

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Fine! I retract my previous statements. Pretend that I didn't make them.

[Hyena Dandy]

Usually when someone comes to me complaining about something, I ask "Do you want me to try to help, or do you just need to get this off your chest?"

[Rageaholic]

Usually when someone comes to me complaining about something, I ask "Do you want me to try to help, or do you just need to get this off your chest?"

That's probably the best way to go. Much better than saying "suck it up" or "life isn't fair". The latter doesn't do any good no matter what reason they have for complaining.

[Nekojin]

I don't know the etiquette here on Fratching with regard to that, but most mainstream forums that I'm on don't exactly smile on wholesale editing and/or destruction of posts after people have responded to them. On at least one forum I'm on, in fact, it is a "strike-worthy" offense, and doing it (or other offenses) enough times can get you banned.

Wiping out your posts because you don't like the way the thread is going is almost as bad as going back and editing the posts to make someone else look bad by selectively changing how you worded things.

So, please, Mongo, even if it's not expressly against the rules here, please don't do that.

[HYHYBT]

Ah, it's not directly on topic anyway. If it will help things, I'll take my responses down as well. (On the other hand, if things continue, I have Mongo's in my trash folder anyway.)

So... yeah, useless advice sucks.

[protege]

That's probably the best way to go. Much better than saying "suck it up" or "life isn't fair". The latter doesn't do any good no matter what reason they have for complaining.

But, there are times when those phrases are appropriate.

For example, I've posted about my younger brother before. When he moved out, and I was attempting to help him with various repairs to his townhouse, I got a litany of complaints about how his life sucked. How he was "forced into buying the townhouse," how he "didn't make much money," this broke, that broke, his college loans, and on and on and on. I tried to be supportive, I really did. But after hearing the *same* complaints every time I went over there, it grew tiring. After the millionth time, I lost it. Simply put he got an earful-- "you're 33 years old, grow a fucking sack and deal with it. Quit bitching!"

I flipped out because I'd had enough. He didn't want advice, nor did he want someone to listen to him. No, he wanted to see if he could bring me down to his "level" and possibly to make me feel guilty about it. (He's always been very jealous that I've been able to turn out better than he did, even with my mental issues...) He's toxic, in other words.

Speaking of mental issues, some of you know that I've had to deal with depression most of my life. Quite a few uninformed people have told me to "get over it." My reaction? Fuck you. Trust me, I'd love to "get over it," but that's not possible.

[Rageaholic]

I'm not saying that they're aren't cases when "Get over it" is an understandable response. If the person is being a genuine dickwad or is toxic (like your brother), than I'd probably say the same thing. But when there is a legit reason for being bothered by something (especially with mental problems), saying that is not only unhelpful, but unnecessarly mean.

[Andara Bledin]

But when there is a legit reason for being bothered by something (especially with mental problems), saying that is not only unhelpful, but unnecessarly mean.

It's not necessarily even mean. To be mean, the people involved would have to lack the ignorance and have the empathy required to actually understand why the person involved can't "get over it" in the first place.

Most people can't be bothered to understand much outside their own sphere of experience.

[Peppergirl]

I don't know the etiquette here on Fratching with regard to that, but most mainstream forums that I'm on don't exactly smile on wholesale editing and/or destruction of posts after people have responded to them. On at least one forum I'm on, in fact, it is a "strike-worthy" offense, and doing it (or other offenses) enough times can get you banned.

Wiping out your posts because you don't like the way the thread is going is almost as bad as going back and editing the posts to make someone else look bad by selectively changing how you worded things.

We don't have any specific rules against this, but from a personal perspective, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Nekojin]

A question if I may, Peppergirl - If a certain person sent me a private message in response to something said publicly here, am I entitled to respond publicly? I realize that posting the contents of the message is probably off-limits, but a direct, public response is called for in this situation, IMO.