Fanfic Pet Hates

[Dreamstalker]

When the ex and I were still talking (and he seemed actually interested in what I was doing), I asked him to critique my fic.

Bad idea.

Not only did he demonstrate a stunning lack of comprehension for everything fanfic and even basic laws of physics/reality (yes it's fiction and she's my character but that still does not mean a human can walk away untouched from a 5-story fall), the constructive crit boiled down to "ok, so you've got an 80% mary sue, why not go for 100%, make her over the top"

-_-

[Lace Neil Singer]

However, according to other authors, and I suspect many people in this debate, a Mary Sue is a new character who is not necessarily an author-insertion, but is undeniably overpowered and has a decidedly boring/grating/inconsistent personality. Especially when their reason to be there is paper-thin at best. In this case, a well-written Sue is not possible.

That's always been my definition. It also includes RP characters as well as fanfic ones; in my experience, a lot of newbie RPers start off with Mary Sues who are certainly not author insertations, but rather are perfect characters.

(from Wiki)

Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors or readers.

For example, if you were writing a Mary Sue into a Lord Of The Rings fanfic, your character would be Aragorn's sister, Arwen's best friend, betrothed to Legolas and also a better archer than him. She'd teach Denethor to value Faramir, save Boromir's life, volunteer to take over from Frodo as Ringbearer and also persuade Saruman to give up being evil. She'd bring Gollum back to the good side, and manage to kill an entire regiment of Orcs without even breaking a nail.

She'd also have hair like woven gold silk and eyes like limpid pools of loveliness. She'd have curves in all the right places, hair down to her butt, massive breasts, and eyes that change colour. Of course, she'd be half elven. Gandalf would adore her, and Sam would follow her around like a lost puppy. She'd have a horse named Moonlight, and own one of the elven rings. Just before Gandalf fell, she'd dive down and save him just in time... or, she'd reluctantly take over as leader afterwards. She'd manage to hurl the ring into the fires of Mount Doom without so much as getting a smudge on her perfect skin.


Ladies and Gentlemen, THAT is a Mary Sue. Be afraid, be very afraid...

[Bloodsoul]

(yes it's fiction and she's my character but that still does not mean a human can walk away untouched from a 5-story fall

Tumble
The character can fall from great heights without taking damage, move greater distances with an adjustment, or “climb” vertical surfaces with a series of bounces.

DCTask
100Ignore falling damage.

~*~

I was a total Mary Sue'er in my youth, but now that I'm less immature than before I think I've definitely cooled off a bit on that. Think the closest I've come back to that was roleplaying the daughter to a goddess of magic and desire; didn't stop said character from getting her butt kicked by Mewtwo, though.

[Dreamstalker]

Had I done a precise translation of my RP character into fic, not only the rest of the fandom but my muses would probably hate me for all eternity. In RP, she was part werewolf which resulted in reflexes generally better than the humans (not perfect though; in full human "form" her sense of balance is innately a bit whacked).

Yes, my character will still try to take on Class Sevens and above by herself (and tends to get her butt roundly kicked by same, but she has somehow managed to not actually die yet).

[depechemodefan]

When a fanfic is based on a tv show or movie, I really don't like that the fanfic writer changes how the char. look like. Making a char. 6 ft tall when on the show he was 1/2 ft shorter than the char who was 6 ft tall. Or give a char. longer legs or bigger bust.

Or being contridictory in the fic, like one scene the char. is discribed as having smooth, creamy skin, and next having a sun-kissed body. Unless I'm wrong about 'creamy' not meaning 'white' or 'pale'.

Also for the x-rated ones I read, the guy is usually endowed with a 12 incher. I kind would like to think a guy with an average 6in would get another person off. Also, there are too many fics that the woman is "tight like a virgin" or tight in such a way one wonders how they guy isn't caught like in a chinese finger torture thingy. I wish char., who were virgins, wouln't act like pros. I expect some mistakes, but not experience when there is no experience. Yeah, like it's believable just from reading books a virgin guy can get his gf off in 2 min. flat once they actual start with the intercourse...oh, and she has multiples.

[Lace Neil Singer]

When a fanfic is based on a tv show or movie, I really don't like that the fanfic writer changes how the char. look like. Making a char. 6 ft tall when on the show he was 1/2 ft shorter than the char who was 6 ft tall. Or give a char. longer legs or bigger bust.

Or, in a slashfic, make the character who's designated as the uke into a pathetic woobie. -.- Apparently, X-Files slashfic is full of stories where Mulder is turned into a wussy little bitch by "authors" who obviously don't know anything about gay couples and how they react towards each other, or have sex.

Little note; unlubed anal intercourse would result in a LOT of pain. O_O However, it's amazing how many slashfic lemons feature it.

[PepperElf]

wow. very well written and i have to agree...


1 Mary Sue - only good when used for parody... and even then it usually sucks.

2 Second Person - I don't even bother trying to read those.

3 Unfinished - I'm soooo thankful for the filters at fanfiction.net. I always set that filter to "completed" !

4 Proofreading / Beta. Yeah. I can take a few small spelling errors. But when it's obviously from lack of knowledge or just laziness... I usually close the fic. One of the recent ones, the plot was actually good, but once I realized the author had no idea you're suppose to put a space after a comma, I just couldn't force myself to read anymore.

Even better is when you offer polite comments on it and they chose to be offended instead of learning how to spell or use proper grammar.

5 Canon. For me that depends. Some of the pairings I like reading are anything but canon, but if the writer at least makes them as true to character as possible and makes the pairing work, then I'm happy.

If they are going to go way off character though, I always appreciate it when they use an OCC or AU notice in the summary.

6 Rapefic.
Eh not always a choice of mine, though I have read some nice recovery fics and "recovery from almost rape" fics too. Much preferred if a hero in the pairing can ride in and save the day before the fact instead of after.

7 Plagurism... For me that depends on how much. I do rather like "filler" fics where they take a scene or two from the story and add in those "what you wish had really happened" scenes / stories

8 Lemons. Yes quality is more important than quantity. If it's boring or poorly written I will end it.

But... I do think some Lemons are unrealistic. Like when the girl's a virgin and it only takes her like 2 minutes to stop hurting and continue on to full pounding intercourse? Those always make me think the author only got his/her experience from reading romance books.

9 Said. Extra points if the author uses the phrase "said he" and not just "he said".
Also... along the same lines... If say Person X is talking to person Y, it's best to try to put person Y's reactions on a different paragraph. I've seen some fics where one person was talking and the speech in the paragraph was broken up by another person's reactions... so at first glance it seemed like the other person was talking. Confusion is not good in fanfics.

10. Bitchery about criticism.
OMG YES. I had one author throw a bitch fit at me and delete my comments once because I wasn't glorifying her... Hell she DID say "Rants welcome" on page one of the fic... How was I suppose to know she'd pull a PMS act when I pointed out that the self-proclaimed Harry Potter expert couldn't even spell Gryffindor correctly.

Now, a tag of "if you don't like it don't read it"... I don't mind that being used, as long as it's in regards to the pairing. I've read some odd pairings and... yeah, if you find that paring offensive then don't read the fic. But only for that case.

--------
Fans throwing fits... Yeah. Even J K Rowling said she knew some people would be very upset when she did her final pairings of Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, and Remus/Tonks. And that she was offended by the fics pairing up any of the teachers with students


And true... sometimes people take characters way too far out of canon. I've read waaay too many HP fanfics where the author decided Ron would try to force himself (or even try to rape) Hermione, or jsut be a total prat should she end up paired with someone else. I mean sure he can be a git sometimes but... I never saw him as a rapist.


And OOOO I love Crossover fics - If they're well written.
I found one with Wormtail and Wormtoung meeting up and they went right into slash with barely a hello. ... so yeah, pretty much STUPID.

But when it's good it works soooo well.

For example... Highlander / MacGyver. (friends only). I read a whole series of those and was like OMG this is awesome. Mac and Mac as best friends! (I forget which one got to be "Mac" but the author was kind and made it obvious who was who)

Xmen / Star Trek - actually this wasn't a fanfic. It was an actual Star Trek Novel which means... by Star Trek's rules, if it's officially published it's canon so...Yeah X-men exist in Star Trek now! LOL

Found a Tin Man / Firefly one too... unfinished tho (pout) but it was kinda interesting. Post movie tho so no Wash (cry).

[I8DaCookie]

Xmen / Star Trek - actually this wasn't a fanfic. It was an actual Star Trek Novel which means... by Star Trek's rules, if it's officially published it's canon so...Yeah X-men exist in Star Trek now! LOL.

Actually, none of the books are canon except (maybe) for the official technical books and encyclopedias.

It's only canon if it's in the live action tv shows and movies. Yes, this means that the Animated series is non-canon, though there are a few things that were carried over from it.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Xmen / Star Trek - actually this wasn't a fanfic. It was an actual Star Trek Novel which means... by Star Trek's rules, if it's officially published it's canon so...Yeah X-men exist in Star Trek now! LOL

I have one of those books at home on my shelf next to all my wrestling books. A Nerd I Be. And from the context, it appears to be a SEQUEL (as the characters seem to be familiar with each other), which means there's at least one more out there. I didn't expect some of the "pairings" (not necessarily slashy ones), but Wolverine and Worf pairing up in the holodeck was pretty damn awesome.

[PepperElf]

that's the one... i don't think they ever published the one that came before it.

and what, books aren't canon? noooooooo.
tho it would be kinda hard to put both professor x and picard in a movie... <snort!>

[Lace Neil Singer]

Another thing that bugs me is the whole "Sue dies and comes back to life" thing. -.- I once read this HP badfic that had a Mary Sue that not only usurped Ginny completely, but she also sacrificed her life to save Harry's.

*pause so everyone can vomit*

She later woke up in her coffin at her funeral. Obviously, this author didn't bother to research what actually happens in a case of death, especially a death where the cause is unknown (ie, by Avada Kedavra).

I am not a doctor or undertaker, nor do I play one on TV, so if any of this is inaccurate, sorry.

Autopsies. The top of the skull is sawn off and the brain removed. The body is cut from throat to pubis and organs are removed. Blood and tissue is removed to test for poison and drugs. The body is gone over inch by inch to determine a cause of death.

Embalming. Not just the actual process, but the skull is stuffed with sawdust to stop it bobbling around in the coffin, and the mouth is sew up to stop it slackly gaping open. The body orifices are blocked up. The organs are put back, but not in the right places.


Still think your Sue can just come back to life at her funeral, deluded author?

[Dreamstalker]

Heh. A coauthor that I had for a short while for my Ghostbusters epic (this was the same silly girl whose RPG character was the quintessential Mary Sue...by the name of Goldilocks, no less) would get mad every time I would accurately describe various injuries. "But $character CAN'T get hurt! [after an incident involving nothing more serious than a broken ankle] You can't hurt any of the main characters, you're the author!"

So I let her rewrite a copy wherein nobody even gets a scratch (dealing with Great Old Ones, can we see the problem here?) and submit it for c&c after I duly warned the rest of the list in private channels that I had nothing to do with it other than letting her see how ridiculous the idea was.

Idea was for her to learn. Did it happen? No. In fact she proceeded to flame almost everyone else who tried to explain and actually help her.

[PepperElf]

You can't hurt any of the main characters

this is why real authors get money. cos they're not afraid to hurt their characters!

Better yet, I'd love to challenge the Mary-Sue authors to pull an Asimov...
meaning, full permission to put themselves into the story, BUT - and here's where the challenge comes in -
- Must describe self accurately without any self-praise. Bonus points for being negative.
- CANNOT be the hero. In fact the Hero might find you annoying.
- More bonus points if any main character dislikes or hates you.


somehow i doubt many mary-sues would ... survive.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Heh, if I was put into most of my fave fandoms, I expect the main characters would hate me. XD For example, I would definitely not get on with Harry Potter; I'd probably end up whacking him one cuz he really got on my nerves in OOTP. XD

[Dreamstalker]

Better yet, I'd love to challenge the Mary-Sue authors to pull an Asimov...
meaning, full permission to put themselves into the story, BUT - and here's where the challenge comes in -
- Must describe self accurately without any self-praise. Bonus points for being negative.

My coauthor would fail instantly, then. Unfortunately I no longer have copies from when she was actively helping, but it is quite a hoot to read her character description. It wouldn't be completely out of place in a Harlequin book..frightening, that. My character, on the other hand, is almost too normal by comparison (I confess she didn't start out that way, but I'm not afraid of criticism and I lean very fast).

- More bonus points if any main character dislikes or hates you.

Even the muses didn't want to deal with her. A typical muse-author exchange (or typical list-response to any of my muses complaining) was "What did $coauthor do now?"

It became a game of sorts among the GMs...how long can we set her up to be beat on before she notices. Getting out of that situation would be solely at the GM's discretion (raw physical or mental ability=yes, any cop-out involving magic=absolutely not).

The game lasted longer than the group, so...no, she never noticed that Goldilocks was always the guinea pig/demon-bait.