how dare you not have pride

[smileyeagle1021]

OK... I mentioned it on the How dare you not want to spawn thread, but I don't want to threadjack so I"ll make it it's own thread.
I don't get it much in person, mainly because I am somewhat of a closet case... which though I think I'm at the point people should be... if someone asks I will honestly tell them that I am gay, but I don't go around telling people it. But I've gotten it online.
I can't stand people who tell me that I should take pride in being gay. Why? People don't take pride in being straight... perhaps I should have pride in being male, or white... oh, how bout I have pride in the fact that I'm taller than 6 foot.
I don't have any problem with having pride, but I have pride in the things I've done. I'm proud of getting an honors diploma in high school, I'm proud of my Eagle Scout, I'm proud of the quality of work that I do, there are many things... but all of them involve things that I have put effort into.
That's not to say I take shame in being gay... I don't take shame in being Scottish either. What I don't understand is why people can't understand that it is possible not to take pride in something without taking shame in it. Also I don't understand people who take so much pride in one tenet of their life that they let it define them. Excuse me for not wanting to define my entire person by who I'm attracted to. I could say the same thing about Latino pride... why are you defining yourself solely by the color of your skin... same with black pride.
I don't know if anything in that post made sense, but it was nice to rant and vent.

[Slytovhand]

What??? Smiley's not proud of being Gar??




Yeah, I get where you're coming from. As you said, you have pride for the things you put effort into, not for merely something that you happen to be (that doesn't take anything at all...). Being gay takes no effort for you (neither does being scottish). It takes no effort for me to look at good looking women - so that's not particularly something to be proud of... nor being of Welsh decent. But being a Shaman does take effort - and thus something I should be ashamed of (cos I'm a lazy bugger who hasn't put that effort in when I should have )


So - Mr S. Eagle... is that Scout bit why you got your name??

If ppl give you crap about your 'lack of pride' - ask them if they're proud of having a leg, or an arm, or skin.... same sort of logic applies.

[smileyeagle1021]

So - Mr S. Eagle... is that Scout bit why you got your name??

yup, before I got my Eagle Scout I was just Smiley but then I got the Eagle Scout and I became the SmileyEagle

[Flyndaran]

I don't even feel pride for things I've done. I may feel good about succeeding but it seems a bit extreme to calle it pride. At least I can understand feeling it for things you've done rather than things you are.

[anriana]

Latino/Black pride are more about culture than skin color...

[smileyeagle1021]

Latino/Black pride are more about culture than skin color...

fair enough... but it's still a culture that one is born into, not one that someone works to get into...

[AFPheonix]

I think there are multiple definitions of pride at work here. There is taking pride and enjoyment from work you have done, which is a good thing. There is being prideful, which is bad.

And then there's having pride about who you are. I don't think it's the same as taking pride in what you do. I tend to think of it more as being comfortable with who you are, and not being afraid of yourself. It's being aware of your good traits, and working on improving your bad ones. It's not being afraid of what others may think of you because of who you are in your core.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I'm guessing by this that Smiley is saying he doesn't get the reactions of people who know about his personal life and go "but you're gay, so that means you have to march in every gay pride parade that comes to town, right?" Not necessarily. Everyone has different levels of comfort and if it's something that just doesn't interest one for whatever reason, that's the way it goes, and it shouldn't be taken as a sign that one is self-loathing or whatever.

[Greenday]

A couple quotes from my new book, Ender in Exile

"Something you work to achieve, that's one thing. Why not be proud of it? Why not feel good about it? But something you were born with, that's just the way you are."

"You shouldn't be proud of being good at something, if you were born with it. That would be as dumb as being proud of having two legs, or speaking a language, or pooping."

Sums it up pretty well. If you earn something, then yes, be proud of it, you deserve it. But something you were born with? Uh, so? That doesn't make you special.

[smileyeagle1021]

I'm guessing by this that Smiley is saying he doesn't get the reactions of people who know about his personal life and go "but you're gay, so that means you have to march in every gay pride parade that comes to town, right?" Not necessarily. Everyone has different levels of comfort and if it's something that just doesn't interest one for whatever reason, that's the way it goes, and it shouldn't be taken as a sign that one is self-loathing or whatever.

yeah... that's part of it... that is also a related rant... the people who think that because you don't follow a stereotype that you obviously are ashamed of who you are... I'm not self loathing or ashamed... I just don't see the point of dressing up and waving a flag while marching in a parade... give me a sousaphone and a brass band playing a Sousa march, oh hell yes, sign me up... I like Sousa march's...
To be honest... some of the worst people with that are other gay people (granted, there are very few who do this). I had a gay roommate who I was halfway out of the closet with (he knew, I never told him, but he knew) who would say things like "well, obviously you can't be gay because you don't like Justin Timberlake"... umm, what the Frak? At the call center I had a black coworker, great guy, but he pointed out that he felt more in place with the white people than the other black people because white people took it at face value that he didn't follow any of the stereotypes of what black people are supposed to like (as far as music, food, etc... he liked a little of everything, rather than a narrow stereotype) and just figured that "hey, people have different tastes"... the "black clique" at the call center (yes, they had a clique) would never let up on him about how he didn't wear the right clothes, didn't listen to the right music, didn't eat the right food, etc.

[daleduke17]

perhaps I should have pride in being male, or white...

Can't do that....you'd be called a racist asshole then.

[Slytovhand]

Smiley - there are a few gay ppl in my call centre, and I work with one all the time. And he seems to hate the 'gay scene'.. precisely because of what you've just said. They take it too far the whole 'being proud' crap.

What blows me away is the stuff gay people can get away with that straight can't. I think it's a stereotype thing. He would do things that are clear and blatant cases of sexual harrassment - but because he's gay, it's ok. Weird crap! So, what you're saying also goes the other way -not only having a stereotype to be 'proud' of, but for other people to fall into that mentality and treat people differently because of it.

[Boozy]

I think AFPheonix put it correctly when she said that it depends on your use of the word "pride".

Most people would say that they are "proud" of their accomplishments, but when they say they are happy with who they are, it's more likely to be described as self-esteem. I'm not proud of being straight or white, because that word just doesn't fit.

With that said, being white and straight has not caused me any strife, whereas being black or gay might have. So when a black or gay person says they are proud of being black/gay, what they really mean is that they are proud of having successfully overcome the hurdles that these things imply they have faced. And that is an accomplishment.

[smileyeagle1021]

What blows me away is the stuff gay people can get away with that straight can't. I think it's a stereotype thing. He would do things that are clear and blatant cases of sexual harrassment - but because he's gay, it's ok.

don't even get me started on those people... that is one of the reasons I stay so closeted is because of the people like that setting a bad stereotype (and I know, the only way to fight those stereotypes is for more people like me who don't follow those stereotypes to come out so people see what most of us really are like... but...)

[anriana]

I think AFPheonix put it correctly when she said that it depends on your use of the word "pride".

Most people would say that they are "proud" of their accomplishments, but when they say they are happy with who they are, it's more likely to be described as self-esteem. I'm not proud of being straight or white, because that word just doesn't fit.

With that said, being white and straight has not caused me any strife, whereas being black or gay might have. So when a black or gay person says they are proud of being black/gay, what they really mean is that they are proud of having successfully overcome the hurdles that these things imply they have faced. And that is an accomplishment.

Exactly. I'm not really proud of being queer - I'm proud of being defiant and being comfortable with my sexuality in a society that tells me it's icky and immoral.