I'm a sinner, but at least I'm married

[dentarthurdent]

So...*siiiiigggh* bullshit is happening on Facebook.

When isn't that true?

Background...I'm pansexual. My mother was told I was bi, and already went off on me about it once when I told her several years ago, about how it was a choice and I was a sinful sinner that sins. She also asked me if that meant I was interested sexually in my cousins, who were like 11 and 8 at the time. I'm polyamorous. My mom does not know this. I'm pagan. My mom does not know this. I think you can guess why I haven't mentioned those last two.

I just got married. My mom was all happy for me and congratulating me and stuff when I called her, and then today I posted a picture with a Cynthia Nixon quote. I happen to be annoyed with her in general for claiming that her homosexuality is a choice, but I liked the quote, which was (and I'm paraphrasing here) about the idea that gay people getting married will not redefine marriage, any more than women being allowed to vote redefined voting, or black people eating at lunch counters redefined dining out. That's pretty much all that was said.

My mom was chatting with me and all the sudden started pounding out (with several words in all caps) a bunch of stuff about how I was married now, does that mean I still want to be in gay relationships too? She said being gay is a sin, and I'm not allowed to redefine anything, only God can define marriage because he invented it. At this point I logged out of Facebook, but my husband says she reposted the same picture with an anti-gay rant underneath, apparently copied and pasted from the chat window (I really hope she put my name on there so her anti-gay friends will unfriend me).

First of all, it's my fucking body, I get to choose what kind of relationships I'm in, how many, and with people with what kind of crotch giblets. I don't feel the need to share that info with my mother. Ever. Just like I don't want to share that I'm dating someone and have a long-distance friend with benefits as we speak. She's on a need-to-know basis, and she doesn't need to know.

God did not fucking invent marriage. It's a cultural institution.

Oh, and I'm gleefully rubbing my hands together waiting for the day when she notices I changed my "Religion" to "Norse Paganism" from "Syncretism" (which was a huge cop-out to keep myself in the broom closet).

Other than that, I just can't right now, and I will come back when I can.

[wolfie]

Oh, and I'm gleefully rubbing my hands together waiting for the day when she notices I changed my "Religion" to "Norse Paganism"

I gather that "Norse Paganism" includes Thor as a deity. That leaves open the classic "My god carries a hammer. Yours died nailed to a piece of wood. Any questions?"

[anakhouri]

What is pansexual? I haven't heard that one before.

Ah, parents. Ideally they should be happy because you're happy but some just have to see you happy in their image.

[Andara Bledin]

What is pansexual? I haven't heard that one before.

This refers to a person whose sexual attraction is not restricted by gender. Male, female, other; all are good.

[Rageaholic]

I just love it when people claim to know what God disapproves of. As if God would actually care people's sexual orientation or who they sleep with.

[bex1218]

Your mom would love my relationship.

I am a bigender (I feel like one or both genders at any given time) leaning towards masculine, asexual with a leaning towards sadomasochism when the mood arises, I am panromatic/demiromantic meaning I don't care the gender/sex (yes, two are separate definitions) I just need some emotional attatchment with someone I date. And I am atheist.

Dragon_Wings on the other site (she hasn't been on in a while) us genderqueer (kind of like bigender), pansexual, polyamorous, and is leaning towards a bit of paganism.

[Gravekeeper]

I just love it when people claim to know what God disapproves of. As if God would actually care people's sexual orientation or who they sleep with.

Considered the perverted anything goes fuck fest that is the animal kingdom, he's probably wondering why we're the only species with a hang up. -.-

[dentarthurdent]

I gather that "Norse Paganism" includes Thor as a deity. That leaves open the classic "My god carries a hammer. Yours died nailed to a piece of wood. Any questions?"

It does. While I don't like to be openly antagonistic, apparently she does, so I wouldn't lose any sleep at night by going there.

[Kara_CS]

I feel your pain. My mother tried to take the religious high ground with me on being bisexual and transgender (technically pansexual but I claim bisexual just because it's easier for most people to understand), but she's a Sunday Christian and best and knew better than to push that with me. So it's mostly just the "I love you, but" type stuff and the blatant refusal to acknowledge my name, gender, and sexual preferences. She knows my fiancee is also transgender and bi, but in the little "safe bubble" in her brain, mother only sees her as a straight ciswoman. She can refuse to see me as I am because she allegedly knew me "before this."

My Bible doesn't say anything about God creating marriage. Marriage is in the Bible, yes, but it has no origin there. It's mentioned as a thing that is done and that's that. You could always point your mother to the part where Jesus healed the Roman centurion's spouse. Research the story, it's translated as male servant, but the context of the story and the original Greek word used carry more emotional connotations than one would infer from just any other servant.

[Kheldarson]

My Bible doesn't say anything about God creating marriage. Marriage is in the Bible, yes, but it has no origin there. It's mentioned as a thing that is done and that's that. You could always point your mother to the part where Jesus healed the Roman centurion's spouse. Research the story, it's translated as male servant, but the context of the story and the original Greek word used carry more emotional connotations than one would infer from just any other servant.

Technically, the argument is that the institution of marriage was begun when God created woman from man's rib and presented her to Adam. Look at Genesis 2:24 and concordances that discuss that verse. Historically, it's also a cultural institution that's seen in many forms around the world (even heathen ones )

And I can tell you what the response will be to the centurion's story since I've argued that one before: "Why would Christ heal the servant?? Because he loves everyone, sinner or not. He heals and forgives without regard to one's past."

[Kara_CS]

Exactly, and we're supposed to live by his example. Funny how so many people forget that.

Also, I still argue that Adam and Eve's marriage was merely assumed.

[Kheldarson]

It may have been assumed but there's a couple of verses in the NT, including the Gospels that use the same language. So it was obviously, at least, reflected in Jewish society as coming from God.

I'll dig up verses later for you, if you want.

[Gravekeeper]

Technically, the argument is that the institution of marriage was begun when God created woman from man's rib and presented her to Adam. Look at Genesis 2:24 and concordances that discuss that verse.

The problem with that argument is that polygamy is totally cool in the Old Testament too and early Christians did not view marriage as a religious institution at all until some odd 300 years after the death of Jesus. It was considered a private matter and did not require anything beyond two people agreeing hey, lets be married. There was no rituals or anything. It wasn't till until one of the bishops decided hey, people shouldn't fark without our approval that the ball got rolling.

Notably, this was a couple hundred years prior to the compilation of the Old Testament even began and several hundred before a comprehensive draft was put together. Before that the Book of Genesis was strictly a Jewish text begrudgingly co-written from 4 different sources by 2 different groups that were forced to reconcile their differing creation stories into a single book. If you'll notice there are two different creation narratives in Genesis as a result.

Thus, ironically, Christian marriage was originally no one's business but the people involved and, as you put it, stayed in the bedroom.

Historically, it's also a cultural institution that's seen in many forms around the world (even heathen ones )

It pre-dates all recorded history. By virtue of the fact mammals have two genders and some of us got smart enough to have to come up with a term for "Those people are having sexy time". >.>

[Kara_CS]

Yeah, and it wasn't even the parties getting married who had to agree on it. It was a matter of "Hello sir, here's a bag of coins, I'd like your daughter to make my babies." And dad would say, "Throw in a goat and she's yours." That was pretty much it for any kind of traditions or ceremonies for a long time. The concept of marrying for love is relatively recent in the grand scheme of things, something that extremist conservative groups fail to recognize. Because then they'd be forced to admit that the definition of marriage has been changed and accepted as the norm since Genesis.

I'm not arguing there is some virtue to a sacred union of two people sharing a life together. It's just that the concept of "marriage" didn't really exist beyond "two people getting together and making babies and maybe they like each other a little while they're at it." Those of us who believe in that aspect feel like there is someone we were meant to be with, someone God intended for us. If that person happens to be the same gender, society and its definitions can fuck right off.

[anakhouri]

Ciswoman? I'm learning so many new words!

(sorry, I know this is off-topic, but I looked it up and am still a little confused. I was born female, feel female, and like being female- most of the time anyway. Am I a ciswoman?)