"You're just not trying hard enough"

[Rageaholic]

To anyone who says this. Go fuck yourself.

What metric do you use to decide who's trying hard enough? Until you're in my or the person you're judging shoe's, than STFU.

[Aethian]

I honestly said this to someone earlier and I believe I have a good reason for it.

Background:

Guy tells me he can't find a job and that his family is treating him badly to the point where he's very underweight cause his step mom would purposely not buy food.

I tell him that I would be willing to help but he has to understand he needs to straighten up fast and that it won't be easy. He would really have to put himself out there to not only get one of the several jobs I see being advertised for. He agrees to this.

Fast forward to him being here. I have to pound on his door in the morning to get him up so that he can drive around to various places he has applied to. Or at least the one he said he has. Food I buy that should last at least a week sometimes lasts less then three days. Except he's constantly telling me he's hungry.

I bring up his promise of getting out there and getting that job and he gives me a huge sigh, tells me I need to back off cause damn didn't I know that he could never make it to school on time. But in the next breath he's trying to tell me that he used to teach the teachers but they never believed him so he got poor grades.

I finally said those words, "You need to grow up and keep the promise I asked of you. Your not trying hard enough."

He responded on how I just don't understand cause of how he was treated growing up cause his dad would yell at him if he tried there.

I pointed out that his dad is over 1k miles away, his step mom is over 1k miles away. Majority of his family is over 800 miles away. He knew that this would be a fresh start and that he needs to do better cause right now he is failing in that endeavor.

His only response? I'm expecting too much, too fast...

[s_stabeler]

yes and no. If anything he tried to do caused him to get yelled at, he is probably in the habit of not bothering to do much. It takes time ( potentially a LOT of time) to get over that. Which is why it's irrelevant how far away his parents are- it is time, not distance.

granted, it's entirely possible he is just lazy. And it IS bad that he is breaking his promise to get a job.

[Aethian]

I'm putting it down to lazy with a smidgeon on his parents.

"Did you call those places that said they were going to call you back X days ago?"

"No, I'm going to tho."

Day later
"Get your calls out?"

"Not yet."

Day later...
"So what did they say when you called them?"

"Call who?"

"The places your trying to get a job."

"Oh I was up watching the races last night and then talked to people. I was asleep most of the day."



That is not doing good enough along with a complete lack of trying.

[crashhelmet]

If you haven't explored every viable option, you're not trying hard enough.

If you're not out pounding the pavement looking for work until you get a job, you're not trying hard enough.

If you're not putting in the required practice and/or study time to get better at whatever it is you want to get better at, you're not trying hard enough.

[BlaqueKatt]

If you haven't explored every viable option, you're not trying hard enough.

this goes back to "what metric"? you have no clue what I, or anyone else classifies as "viable", judging by your own standards it's easy to fall into fundamental attribution error.

as an example:

I was told getting an apartment separate from my husband was "easy", if I just "took my cats to the shelter" And my refusal to do so because they were keeping my depression at bay was "not trying hard enough", because the person telling me this despised animals.

[Kheldarson]

this goes back to "what metric"? you have no clue what I, or anyone else classifies as "viable", judging by your own standards it's easy to fall into fundamental attribution error.

as an example:

I was told getting an apartment separate from my husband was "easy", if I just "took my cats to the shelter" And my refusal to do so because they were keeping my depression at bay was "not trying hard enough", because the person telling me this despised animals.

The metric is by taking all possibilities and saying what have you tried and what has what costs.

For instance, in your case, what if the friend hadn't been someone you knew despised your cats? That they merely thought it would be better for your mental health to be away from your husband, even if it cost your cats?

Ultimately, yes, the final metric is up to you, but if you can't say you haven't considered and weighed the cost of all options, then it's fair to say you haven't tried everything.

[Rageaholic]

If you haven't explored every viable option, you're not trying hard enough.

If you're not out pounding the pavement looking for work until you get a job, you're not trying hard enough.

If you're not putting in the required practice and/or study time to get better at whatever it is you want to get better at, you're not trying hard enough.

This sounds like the same line of thinking I was railing about in my OP. It's so easy to think someone is not trying hard enough when the reality is it's easier said than done. Like in Blaquekatts example, giving up the cat may be a "viable option", but at what cost? The cost of her happiness and sanity?

For the work example "pounding the pavement" is pretty subjective. I suppose you could spend 10-12 hours a day looking for work, but you eventually lose your sanity. Not everyone is a warrior who can handle the same amount of crap.

[crashhelmet]

This sounds like the same line of thinking I was railing about in my OP. It's so easy to think someone is not trying hard enough when the reality is it's easier said than done. Like in Blaquekatts example, giving up the cat may be a "viable option", but at what cost? The cost of her happiness and sanity?

Exploring an option is not the same as committing to one.

If the option of giving up her cat is not feasible for her, then it's not a viable option. It would then be time to explore other options.

For the work example "pounding the pavement" is pretty subjective. I suppose you could spend 10-12 hours a day looking for work, but you eventually lose your sanity. Not everyone is a warrior who can handle the same amount of crap.

Yes, spending all day every day looking for a job can get frustrating and taxing. At the same time, wasting the day doing nothing but watching TV, playing video games, or some other task other than job hunting is ridiculous.

Too many people get too stubborn and only look for a particular job or a particular pay rate. others stop looking once they've applied or had a single interview because they're certain they've got that one job. When they don't get it, they fall back into that "I'm never going to get a job" slump.

Explore your options. it could mean an entry level position to get your foot in the door. It could mean taking a job in a different industry or a different job all together.

Whether it's a search for housing, a job, asking someone out, or whatever, you need to remember that every opportunity you waste is a chance to lose what you're after to someone else.

There is the old saying "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today." I've got a better one.

"Procrastination is just like masturbation. In the end, you're only screwing yourself."

[Rageaholic]

Just because someone doesn't spend all day looking for a job doesn't mean that they are spending zero time on it. They could be spending a few hours, but just not all day for instance.

Another thing (that relates to the subjectivity of "not trying") is that to accomplish a task, some may need to exert more effort than others to achieve the same results (ie learning disabilities). This is why I hate the whole "not trying" argument. A lot of the time, it assumes that if you fail at something, you're just not trying which is bullshit.

[Aethian]

It's not about the needing to do it all day. It was a promise given for me to get him up here. Just today, fed up with him on his xbox or laptop all day I asked for 10 places he called talking about jobs and setting up interviews. I was away from the apartment for 12 hours. When I asked for the list he gave me 3 and said he was to tired to call anyone else.

[protege]

If you're not out pounding the pavement looking for work until you get a job, you're not trying hard enough.

When I got my current job, I had to bust my ass to get it. I used every resource I could find--the college's job placement office, online postings, temp agencies (waste of time, IMHO), various people I knew in the financial industry, and job fairs. I literally walked the business districts in *several* local towns--from Pittsburgh to the state line--looking for work. An entire weekend was spent doing my resume, sending out letters, as well as walking probably a million miles through Pittsburgh's golden triangle.

Unfortunately, the late 1990s weren't a great time to be out of work here. A sharp increase in accounting software meant that the "big 6" firms simply weren't hiring. They were starting to lay people off, flooding the job market with better-qualified people (I have an accounting degree, but I'm not a CPA), which kept salaries low. Didn't stop me from walking into every firm I could find, and dropping off resumes with the HR department, and applying for jobs. I might not get an interview, but it did get my foot in the door. By the end of that day, I was tired as hell. Keep in mind it was July, and I was wearing a black suit!

I got a few interviews, but nothing serious. Mellon Bank and PNC both said that they simply weren't hiring accountants right now. But, they said they'd keep my resume on file, just in case. Probably bullshit, but I continued to bug them for awhile. I didn't "pound the pavement" every day, nor did I hit up every firm in town in one day. I'd hit one area, then "regroup" and do another.

In the end, I got lucky with one of my neighbors. He was in the financial world (as an investor) for 4 decades, and knew quite a few people. He told me that my current boss needed "an accountant" for some project. At the time, my boss was looking to expand his financial services firm, and needed an assistant. So I put the suit on drove over there...and 2 days later, I was learning my way around their database, and other tasks. This July, I'll have been with the firm for 16 years You name the job, I've probably done it.

If you really want something, hard work is *very* important. Sure, I knew someone who helped me out. But, you have to consider that I had to build up my reputation. He watched me grow up, do the various school fundraisers, my paper route...plus I sometimes did the odd chore for him. He was even at my Eagle Scout ceremony. He knew I'd bust my ass to get the job done, and I'm sure he put in a good word for me. All that hard work eventually did pay off.

But, back on topic, there are some people who simply don't want to do that. They bitch and moan about how hard things are, but don't take the initiative in improving things. They blame everyone else for their failures.

I've posted about my younger brother before. He had a hard time getting a job, simply because he didn't want to put the time or work into it. He sent out a few resumes, but that was pretty much it. I tried to help him, I really did. But, having to listen to him whine grew tiring. Look asshole, nobody is going to hand you a job "just because."

The job he did get, didn't last long. He got forced out because he had no experience. Then he was out of work for a *year.* Did he spend that time looking for another job? Fuck no. Again, my dad (who is a writer) and I tried to help him, but he wanted none of that. Instead, he would rather go out with friends and play video games. That went on for a year, because my mother didn't want to "push him." That changed...when the school loan payments started coming due

He's now working a shitty county job, living in a shitty townhouse, and generally hates life right now. I don't ask him about work, since it's a very sore subject with him. I don't let him guilt me--it's not my fault he chose to sit on his ass.

[Rageaholic]

One more thing: For some, it could be a constant struggle to be "trying hard enough". It could mean constantly fighting with oneself to stay on task, something that other people might not have to deal with. When it's such a struggle, can you really blame someone for not always trying their hardest?

[s_stabeler]

One more thing: For some, it could be a constant struggle to be "trying hard enough". It could mean constantly fighting with oneself to stay on task, something that other people might not have to deal with. When it's such a struggle, can you really blame someone for not always trying their hardest?

I've had this happen in the past- which could get REALLY annoying when you try to explain that you CANNOT concentrate and get called lazy. I had been struggling for an hour trying. ( perhaps unsurprisingly, considering that trying to concentrate got me a headache AND getting yelled at, while not concentrating meant I just got yelled at, I quit even trying. I've since been able to wrestle my mind to keep on a task, but yelling at someone who simply cannot concentrate? is a very good way to get them to stop trying completely.)

[protege]

I've had this happen in the past- which could get REALLY annoying when you try to explain that you CANNOT concentrate and get called lazy. I had been struggling for an hour trying.

There's a big difference between having trouble concentrating...and choosing to sit on your ass doing nothing. Hell, I *know* how hard it can be to concentrate on things. Some of you know that I've had to deal with depression and other mental issues most of my life. Issues, that makes it damn near impossible to concentrate at times. As such, I had to bust my ass to get where I am now.

That's why I get annoyed with people like my brother. He does not have the mental issues that I do. He's just a lazy bastard who refuses to do anything...then whines about it.