Naive parents

[TheHuckster]

Again, I disagree. We are talking about manners, getting along with friends, basic politeness and good social behaviour. He doesn't feel it is fine to ignore these things because I don't do anything about it, he feels it is fine to ignore rules because the people setting them won't do anything about it. As far as following authority goes he really does understand it, get it, and is pretty good about it. All the teacher has to do is act from a position of authority. Doing nothing and sending home a note expecting me to do something is not the act of an authority figure.

And what does not doing anything yourself say about you as an authority figure? How about instituting a new house rule: No coming home from school with negative notes from teachers.

The teacher (or ECE I think) that he had his last year of day care was a complete twit, and why I feel so strongly about this. She would call me at least weekly to complain about the exact same problems every time and refused to do anything about it! He wouldn't sit and wait for his snack, he would wander around the room, bother other kids etc. So don't give him the snack. It's really not that hard, if the rule is you sit on your butt and wait for snack, then make him follow it! I guarantee he will not starve to death without those 4 baby carrots until lunch, and if he missed just one snack he would be sitting on his ass quiet as a mouse from now on. She wouldn't do anything but complain to me. It was the same for every complaint that she made. He would push to the front of lines to go outside or to the kitchen. She wouldn't pull him out of line and make him wait to the end, or make him miss time outside, she would let him keep the place he stole and then complain to me. He was 4, trying to explain the concept of long term benefits of a cooperative society was a bit beyond him. Understanding 'if I push in line I won't get what I want' wasn't, but it never happened. She called him her 'devil child' and by the time she had him for a year that was pretty close to accurate, and I think it was all her doing.

I agree that the teacher is wrong. So, that's when you step up to the plate and institute your own measures. Responding to ignoring bad behavior by the teacher with your own ignoring does not help anyone.

There are so many things the school can and should do. As far as the wrestling why don't they take my son and the other two boys, every time they are found wrestling, and make them sit the rest of the recess on the ground with their backs against the building. If that doesn't work start taking a whole recess or two away every time they are found wrestling, make them sit in the classroom or run laps in the gym or something. The three boys eating lunch in the principals office together isn't really a punishment, they like each other and her, and more to the point, it's not working to stop the behaviour. They don't have to break out the corporal punishment to do something effective.

Alright, fine. But understand that even taking away recess still might not work, and the punishment may need to spill over to your realm in order to address the unwanted behavior. Again, missing out on a 30 minute recess is nothing compared to getting grounded for unwanted behavior after school. When I was in trouble at school (mostly disruptive behavior like your child), I barely flinched at the prospect of no recess compared to the dreaded walk into my house and having to get my mother to sign something that the teacher sent home with me, because chances are I wasn't watching TV for at least that evening, and if what I did was bad enough, it could be weeks before I'd see the TV or games again.

For the CAS, been there, lots of fun doing that. My husband committed suicide, and I was being investigated for murder for about 3 days until it became 100% clear what happened, the police called CAS the first minute or so. They are in fact a huge pain in the ass, and added a lot of unnecessary stress to my sons and my life. It took almost two years to get them to go away, until I had a stable job that would work around my daycare schedule, a reasonable income, a stable place to live. It doesn't help that I have diagnosed mental health problems, but after extensive interviews with my psychiatrist (I am properly medicated and capable of running my life) they decided I was a fit parent. A child 'not listening' to someone who refuses to command respect is hardly the symptom of a problem child, and a school who would consider threatening a family with that particular hell because of the problems the school is having/causing would be the lowest form of coercion.

I'm sorry for your struggles, and I would actually agree that, although I totally disagree with your parenting style, if your child's behavior is more disruptive than harmful or bullying, then I don't think your child's problem is to the point of calling child services over it. However, you have to understand that, regardless of how spineless teachers are, you can still have a spine and correct the behavior if you want to. It just sounds to me like you simply don't want to correct the behavior because of some incorrect assumption that because it's happening at school, then you should consider yourself powerless to do so.

[Rageaholic]

So, you're saying that your son "trusts" you to hang on to his stuff until he's ready for it but instead of hanging on to it, you destroy it?? You say that he doesn't fear/despise you? I call bullshit on that. If he doesn't fear/despise you now, just wait, keep on destroying his stuff & he eventually will

Plus, all that will teach him will be to hide stuff he doesn't want destroyed. so all you've done is teach him to be evasive & sneaky

Congrats

I agree here. Breaking the toys just seems needlessly cruel.

That said, I don't understand all the fuss about the wrestling. If I read it correctly, it's just playful wrestling between friends. It's not like he's wrestling random students. The schools can enforce their own rules, but a parent not enforcing them doesn't make them a bad parent.

[SkullKing]

So, you're saying that your son "trusts" you to hang on to his stuff until he's ready for it but instead of hanging on to it, you destroy it??

She enver said that, she said specifically, that if she tells her son"keep misbehaving with that toy and I will break that toy", her son asks her to keep it for him, as he knows the toy is atemptatiopn and doe snot want it broken.


I do think breaking the tyoys is alittle too much, becaus eyou can always give it top a less fortunate child, but she never said she breaks things her son entrusted her.

[NecCat]

She enver said that, she said specifically, that if she tells her son"keep misbehaving with that toy and I will break that toy", her son asks her to keep it for him, as he knows the toy is atemptatiopn and doe snot want it broken.

Pretty much this. I haven't even had to threaten to break a toy in a long time. Now it's more like 'You have been misbehaving with that toy, what should we do about it?'. Sometimes he decides he can behave properly, he changes his behaviour. Sometimes he decides he can't behave properly, he asks me to hold on to the toy until he is capable of being good with it. It usually takes about 2-5 days before he asks for it back. I always give it back, it's his, I didn't take it, it was his choice to give it up.

He does know if he can't behave with it that I WILL take it, for a day, then a few days, then a week, then take ALL the toys for a few days, then a week and so on, and if the behaviour continues to be a problem I will start destroying the toys. I haven't had to do it in years (coincidently when he was with the daycare teacher I wrote of earlier). I will probably never have to do it again. It seems to be a lesson he learned well.

[CriminalMindsRocks]

ok, well, let me ask you this, how exactly is your son "misbehaving" with his toys? what kind of toys are we talking here? toy guns that fire toy bullets? is he bopping people over the head with a toy lightsaber? trying to skewer someone with a bow & arrow set? what?

[NecCat]

As far as the toys go the two that come to mind are a remote control truck that he was using the terrify the cat with (another house rule, we have to be nice to the cat, the cat is little and we are big, it's our job to take care of the cat). He was using all of his remote control toys to chase the cat around for a few weeks, I would take the toy away, then all the remote toys, then sending him to his room with no toys, etc. After a while he was told the next truck he used to frighten the cat with was getting broken. It happened. He's given me a couple trucks and also a nerf gun that he was using since to bother the cat. (That the cat is older and gives a lot less of a crap now is immaterial). He always apologizes to the cat and asks the cat if he should have his toy back and promises not to bother him with it before asking me for it. He maybe forgets and starts bugging the cat 2 or 3 times a year. I consider it a success.

The other one I can think of was more disassembled than broken. It was something he was making from lego, he gets lost in lego like other kids do in tv. I was having ongoing fights with him to get out of the house on time in the morning, I was limiting lego play to afternoons only (which is kind of sad right?) and he would sneak them to play in the morning, I was taking all legos away for a day or more at a time, and I finally told him the next time he played with lego in the morning and we became late leaving the house he was getting it broken. So that happened too, but it didn't get thrown out the pieces got thrown in the lego bucket and put away for a few days. He was very upset that I ruined his work. He also frequently hands over toys to me that he can't put down to get out the door in the morning, then asks for them back in a few days. I count it another success. We are rarely running late in the morning now, and at the time that happened I was late daily for about 3 weeks running.

[catcul]

What's wrong with giving the perfectly good toys to charity? I'm sure that many charities would love to sell the toys for a good cause.

[NecCat]

Nothing really wrong with giving toys to charity, but we do that a couple three times a year as we accumulate too much crap. We clean out the house, take anything that can be donated, buy one new toy, get an ice cream or something. It's a nice day, it makes me happy for less things, it makes him happy to feel like he's doing something nice, it's all round a good thing. I didn't want it to be associated with a punishment.

[Jetfire]

Sounds like you have a system that has worked for you, and isn't *that* extreme IMO. Sure a toy could be given to charity or what not, but there is something rather immediate and long lasting in seeing something broken in front of you and having the broken item around for a bit after that. Especially since it's near the end of a chain of escalating punishments.

On the other hand, being Toy-zilla and smashing all the toys at the slightest fault would be useless as far as punishments go.

[s_stabeler]

It really hinges on if the toy being broken seems inevitable to the child or not. If it's clear that it takes misbehaving badly to get a toy broken, it usually works- if, however, you expect the kid to be perfectly behaved, or your get out the hammer, then it won't work. (because the kid then believes you actually want to break the toy, and are waiting for an excuse)

I'd also venture to suggest that, with an older kid, you shouldn't break anything they bought themselves- as that CAN lead to resentment. ("I saved for months to get that toy, and you $%^& break it over nothing!")

[SkullKing]

Yeah, honestly I don´t see what NecCat does vis-a-vis the toys as something this bad.

It is not something I would do personally, but I can see where she is coming from.

[kibbles]

whoa hold the phone..admittedly, I do not have children (I'm a piggy parent but no actual children) but you've BROKEN your kid's stuff?? I'm sorry, but that's IMHO just cruel

I am glad that I am not the only one who believes actually breaking a child's toy is cruel..JMO of course.