Trouble in Europe's anti-gun "paradise"

[ditchdj]

I mockingly call it that because most people there think that gun control stops gun violence. However, Fox News (of all places!) did a good piece about this.....

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/...otings-europe/

[Rebel]

They compared America's statistics from 1977 to 1999 to Europe's statistics from 2001 to 2010. Can you notice a tiny bit of information blurring being done there?
Also, Europe is a collection of countries. To make the information clear, you'd have to compare America to each country individually. But notice the 'reporter' didn't.

And I think the most important bit of information left out was that to do with individual deaths as a result of guns. Multiple shooting deaths are the exception, not the rule. Reporting like this would be like ignoring a murderer because they only murdered 1 person, and only reporting on the multiple victim murderers, and using this information to 'prove' that all murderers are serial offenders.
In order to prove that the restrictive gun laws in Europe don't work, you'd have to bring up the statistics of all deaths as a result of guns and compare them to all deaths in America as a result of guns.

And really, FOX news is the one to report these 'facts'. I didn't know anyone even took them seriously.

[Rapscallion]

Reporting like this would be like ignoring a murderer because they only murdered 1 person, and only reporting on the multiple victim murderers, and using this information to 'prove' that all murderers are serial offenders.

Um, that's pretty much what he did. He says in there that he took out all instances of fewer than (I think) four deaths.

Were I pro-gun, I'd be embarassed by that article. Some of those in the comments are.

The author cites school shootings as part of a 'justification' for armed citizenry - how many schools in the US allow students and teachers to be armed?

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

The author cites school shootings as part of a 'justification' for armed citizenry - how many schools in the US allow students and teachers to be armed?

Not enough.

[draggar]

All gun laws do is hurt / punish those who want to follow the law.

Most guns used in crimes are purchased though illegal means (at least here in the USA).

There is very little you can do to curb gun violence - those who want to do it will find the means.

Education, licensing, laws, availability, etc.. will only go so far.

[Boozy]

I mockingly call it that because most people there think that gun control stops gun violence. However, Fox News (of all places!) did a good piece about this.....

What? A pro-gun piece focussing on anecdotal evidence from Fox News? How unexpected!

[ditchdj]

All right try this one if you didnt like that source......

http://gunowners.org/just-for-skeptics/

Read the fact sheets. The stats and the op eds with facts. Then I want you to use reliable sources to take it apart.

[Rapscallion]

Reliable sources?

Sure!

How about the article itself?

Section seven goes on about gun myths. Section three under there says that Europe has averaged 400k murders per year, but coyly admits it includes murders by governments. Looking at the footnotes it admits to having added in:

17The number of people killed by their own government in Europe averages about 400,000 for the last 70 years. This includes Hitler's extermination of Jews, gypsies and other peoples (20,946,000); Stalin's genocide against the Ukrainian kulaks (6,500,000); and more. R.J. Rummel, Death by Government (2000), pp. 8 and 80.

So they included concentration camps from WW2 to bolster their figures?

I don't think I need to say any more.

Rapscallion

[Red Panda]

Not enough.

Because the one thing we need more of in schools are weapons

[ditchdj]

Because the one thing we need more of in schools are weapons

I wouldn't want to instead let any criminal take my life, whether they may be 15 or 50.

[Red Panda]

Good point. Lets give access to weapons to a segment of our population known for not having good decision making skills, an inability to fully process consequences, and are in a high stress enviroment which is filled with social clicks that make fun of and brutalize those who aren't part of their click all because once every few years somebody brings a gun into a school. Better make sure everybody in the old folks home is armed as well, who knows how many criminals could be planning an assault on senior citizens this very second.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Red Panda, your beating the crap out of that straw man, but do you think you can spare a minute to respond to the issue at hand?

[Red Panda]

I am directly commenting on Greenday's comment that more schools need to have armed students by pointing out why students are not a good group to arm. Next time I'll make sure to ask your permission before responding to somebody's comments.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Except that Greenday's post had nothing to do with arming students, merely allowing people who would otherwise be carrying anyway to continue to do so in college campuses and school zones.

Now I'm no authority when it comes to giving anyone permission to do anything, but it makes for better debate when people make an effort to understand what previous posters mean and respond to that instead of jumping to radical conclusions.

[Greenday]

I am directly commenting on Greenday's comment that more schools need to have armed students by pointing out why students are not a good group to arm. Next time I'll make sure to ask your permission before responding to somebody's comments.

I haven't read one thing by you that has anything to do with what I said. I not once said kids should be allowed access to guns. But adults in college? You not once talked about it.