Wisconsin Republicans Attempt Vote Without Democrats

[linguist]

rather than patrolling the highways, thus wasting more state resources, because they decided to not do the job they were voted in for.

how did they not do their job? it seems to me their job is to protect the interests of those who voted them in. if they knew they had no chance to defeat the bill by vote, then delaying the vote while negotiations can be made to modify a bill rammed through under false pretenses was the only way they could protect the interests of those who voted them in.

Um, what? This bill is trying to make people in unions pay for retirement and health benefits like everyone else does. And preventing them from being able to just stop everything from functioning because they think they deserve a raise even when they don't.

try again. the bill would strip them of their rights to collective bargaining. further, the bill was targeted only at certain unions, which just so happened to be those unions who opposed the governor during his election. those who supported him are not included.

Don't like decisions being made at work when you aren't there? Don't purposely skip out on your job and that won't be an issue. Maybe if they showed up to do their damn job instead of going on vacations, the Republicans wouldn't have to hold votes without them.

do you even know what you're talking about? it was the senators that left the state to avoid a quorum. this attempt to vote without the democrats happened in the assembly, which is an entirely separate house of the wisconsin state legislature, one in which none of the democrats serving left.

3-4 days to read a whole 140 pages! Say it isn't so! It did go through the democratic process. It's put through a vote. That's democratic.

could you read 140 pages of dense legal writing in less than 4 days? with 100% comprehension? perhaps you could, but i'd be willing to bet it would take you most of that time, which would leave little to no time for debate, which is a contravention of the democratic process.

[blas87]

I am so sick of hearing of "He's taking away our rights!", rights rights rights rights.

So many people do not have the "right" to not show up to work when they get mad about their insurance costs rising, not getting a raise for the second or third straight year. Most people, if they called in sick for a week straight because of bad news, or went picketing and finding doctors to write them medical excuses, would be fired.

My insurance has gone up every damn year I've worked at the factory. Out of my own pocket. I didn't get a raise in 2009. We've had furloughs and mandatory hour cuts when we were slow. If anyone DARED not show up to work (though that'd be stupid if you were low on cash anyway!) or go stomping around proesting, they'd be fired.

The budget was not made this way by rich Republicans giving "deals" to their rich buddies. The budget in Wisconsin is tanked in large part because of a bleeding heart former governor who gave hand-outs to just about anyone.

If people always want to back up Obama and say "Well, he has a really hard job and hard decisions to make because of the way the economy tanked before he even got the job, it's going to take time for him to make it better", well take those words and apply them to Governor Walker. Wisconsin has been in big financial trouble for quite some time, it's not his fucking fault. Get over it already, quit blaming Republicans for ALL financial troubles. Don't forget how loose-walleted Democrats are when it comes to giving money away to whomever needs "help", while people who really need help rarely make the "cut" to get it.

[Andara Bledin]

The budget was not made this way by rich Republicans giving "deals" to their rich buddies. The budget in Wisconsin is tanked in large part because of a bleeding heart former governor who gave hand-outs to just about anyone.

You should read up and learn about your state's budget; I shouldn't know more about it than you do.

Your state was operating at a surplus and expected to have another surplus of over $100mil. Except that the governor signed a flurry of tax cuts for his cronies to the tune of nearly $150 mil that created the very budget crisis that he is now using as an excuse to disenfranchise the opposition.

Article at Talking Points Memo

This isn't about money; it's about power.

^-.-^

[McDreidel09]

What gets me is that this bill was made to cover up Walker's little spending spree.

Yes folks, the budget (note that I said the budget) was in the black (meaning profit) around $120 million. Where did it go? Walker spent $140 million on his lobbyists and special interest groups. I will have to ask my friend for the link again, but he checked out the sources and they were found to be reliable. I will have the link up when I can get a hold of my friend who found it.

[AdminAssistant]

Don't forget how loose-walleted Democrats are when it comes to giving money away to whomever needs "help", while people who really need help rarely make the "cut" to get it.

My home state is run by a "loose-walleted Democrat" and is currently operating at a profit.

[FArchivist]

I cannot defend what the democrats are doing here. It's a real dirty trick to leave the state and try to hold up voting. In this case, I think it would be completely justified for the Repulicans to vote without them. How would they like it if the tables were turned?

It goes the same way.
This is not new; both Democrats AND Republicans in ALL of the state governments have left the state before. Democrats have just left Indiana; they left Texas in 2003. The Republicans left Oklahoma in 1996, GA a number of times in the 1980s. This tactic is old hat; it's not dirty at all. Standard textbook. Both sides WILL do it again in the future.

Um, what? This bill is trying to make people in unions pay for retirement and health benefits like everyone else does. And preventing them from being able to just stop everything from functioning because they think they deserve a raise even when they don't.

Also in the bill is stripping the union of its collective bargaining rights, which effectively outlaws the union entirely. People overlook what that actually allows. It would give the Governor power to cancel health insurance altogether, fire and hire at whim, issue mandatory pay cuts without opposition.

if the bill passes as is, the Governor will have the power to walk up to a teacher that opposed him, make that teacher's salary $3000/yr, cancel the health plan and pension, and the teacher has no recourse but to bow down and lick the Governor's boots. Do you think it's wise to grant the Governor that power? To allow the Governor to be able to fire everyone who is a registered Democrat without needing to give cause?

[Greenday]

if the bill passes as is, the Governor will have the power to walk up to a teacher that opposed him, make that teacher's salary $3000/yr, cancel the health plan and pension, and the teacher has no recourse but to bow down and lick the Governor's boots. Do you think it's wise to grant the Governor that power? To allow the Governor to be able to fire everyone who is a registered Democrat without needing to give cause?

Then the governor has the power to assault and maim the teacher too!

Just figured I'd add to it more stuff that wouldn't happen.

[Racket_Man]

My insurance has gone up every damn year I've worked at the factory. Out of my own pocket. I didn't get a raise in 2009. We've had furloughs and mandatory hour cuts when we were slow. If anyone DARED not show up to work (though that'd be stupid if you were low on cash anyway!) or go stomping around proesting, they'd be fired.

.

do you also realize that state/public workers have a lower pay rate than the private sector???? the difference is made up with benefits.

Do you also realize that state/public workers have not had raises in more than a few years????

Do you realize that teachers are paid crap???? and really have had a wage freeze for almost 20 YEARS. an article from Wausau

do you realize that teachers pay is CAPPED (by LAW) by QEO in Wisconsin??? a brief blurb on QEO this little thing was put into law in 1993 (well before Doyel was elected Tommy Thompson to be exact). the teachers really do not have all that much inthe way of bargining rights and have taken the brunt of falling wages in good times and bad

http://www.wasb.org/news-and-issues.html

http://www.fox21online.com/news/wisc...limination-qeo

[FArchivist]

Then the governor has the power to assault and maim the teacher too!

Just figured I'd add to it more stuff that wouldn't happen.

If what I describe happens in GA due to lack of power our teacher's union has, why would it NOT happen in Wisconsin? Is Wisconsin somehow magically different?

[Greenday]

If what I describe happens in GA due to lack of power our teacher's union has, why would it NOT happen in Wisconsin? Is Wisconsin somehow magically different?

When did this happen?

And teachers were paid only $3,000 a year?

[FArchivist]

When did this happen?

It's always been this way in GA. Unions have never had power here. Right-to-work state. Thus, no ability to collectively bargain.

And teachers were paid only $3,000 a year?

More seriously: The average salary for a teacher in elementary, middle, or high school with a Bachelor's or a Master's in GA ranges from $18-25K/year, with $21K being the average. Most teachers end up working part-time jobs after school in order to make ends meet. Health benefits, if they are offered at all, usually come with a $4-5K deductible. There is no tenure. There is no pension. You can be fired at any time without repercussion.

And people wonder why GA ranks at the bottom in primary education and why they can't keep teachers in the local school systems. Why the hell would I want to teach for a paltry $20K/year when I can go to Tampa and make $35-45?

[Thankfully, that doesn't apply to higher education. Hit the colleges or universities and it's gravy city.]

[AdminAssistant]

Hit the colleges or universities and it's gravy city.]

*sigh* Not necessarily, for reasons I've listed in this thread and others.

[Greenday]

*sigh* Not necessarily, for reasons I've listed in this thread and others.

I think FArchivist just means professors, not TAs and such.

[BlaqueKatt]

There is no tenure. There is no pension. You can be fired at any time without repercussion.

huh sounds like the jobs of everyone else in WI that isn't a state worker.

we are an "At will" state which means

either party can break the relationship with no liability, provided there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship and that the employer does not belong to a collective bargaining group (i.e., has not recognized a union). Under this legal doctrine: any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work

while "right to work" means agreements between labor unions and employers making membership or payment of union dues or fees a condition of employment, either before or after hiring are prohibited.

right now even if a state worker doesn't want to join a union, they are forced to pay union dues, which to me is legal extortion.

if the bill passes as is, the Governor will have the power to walk up to a teacher that opposed him, make that teacher's salary $3000/yr, cancel the health plan and pension, and the teacher has no recourse but to bow down and lick the Governor's boots.

yes because taking away collective bargaining also takes away all other wage and labor laws...even the federal ones

Do you think it's wise to grant the Governor that power? To allow the Governor to be able to fire everyone who is a registered Democrat without needing to give cause?

this is a list of people a governor can fire-notice they are all government officials.

and here we have a lovely article explaining why he can't

Although state taxes are levied to pay for teacher pensions and benefits, local school districts have the sole discretion of hiring and firing teachers. Walker does not have the authority to do so.

[FArchivist]

*sigh* Not necessarily, for reasons I've listed in this thread and others.

I amend that to, hits the colleges and universities here in GA, and the gravy is pretty good.

huh sounds like the jobs of everyone else in WI that isn't a state worker.

Or isn't a private union member for one of the food processing or consumer goods corporations. Those guys have it pretty good too.

yes because taking away collective bargaining also takes away all other wage and labor laws...even the federal ones

Legally, no.
In practice, it makes it hard to prove and the practical effects are to turn you into God-Boss. Like, if you are salaried, requiring you to work 80 hours a week. Or cutting your pay to minimum wage. Or deciding that you are a salaried part-time worker, which is effectively the most hideous punishment I can think of.

and here we have a lovely article explaining why he can't

I don't really see that as an impediment to firing the teachers, but that may be due to having grown up and living in the Deep South. Down here, the discussion would go like this:

Governor: That's it. Fire every son-of-a-bitch teacher that's protesting in Milwaukee.

Governor Admin Lackey: Uh, Your Honor, you don't have the power to do that. That's the job of the district board and Bob Smith is the chairman there. He's already said he's not doing any layoffs and that---

Governor: I don't give a good goddamn! You get on the horn to Bob and tell his ass that if he doesn't shape up and follow orders, he'll be put out to pasture next year. I've got a metric fuckton of young bucks ready to take his position as Chairman on that Board and I'm not putting up with any shit from him.

I may be too used to machine politics. Down here, you do what the big boys say or you don't get re-elected to your position, period. So if the Republicans on the local level get a call down from the Republican governor, that's all she wrote. What prevents the Wisconsin Governor up there from pulling a Kingfish? Do the parties just not work that way? If not, who bosses your parties up there? *confused*