I'm Christian, unless you're gay. (Linked article)

[Salted Grump]

http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-chr...youre-gay.html

I cannot stress Just how much this article hits all the right buttons in regards to what's fundamentally wrong with modern religious actions.

it's 3 pages, but the authour took the time to collect some of the responses and posted them in a later post (linked to at the end of the third page)

[jackfaire]

Some of the comments well and truly piss me off because they seem to miss the point of what he is saying.

"Oh but we don't hate the gays we love them we just want to help them understand they are sinning and help them stop sinning" (paraphrasing the comments that boil down to that)

I am sorry my loving a consenting adult member of the same sex is a hell of a lot different than binge drinking.

Comparing my "sin" to ones that hurt people and destroy lives is disingenious at best.

Should I then start talking to you about the "sin" of enjoying sex with your wife after all you shouldn't enjoy that it should only be so you can have kids and since artificial insemination exists you shouldn't actually have sex with your wife at all since it isn't needed.

Do not ever compare my being gay to my brother doing one too many drugs.

My lifestyle as you put it will land me with a nice husband a good home and a loving life.

My brother's landed him two feet short of being locked up in the mental ward and living on the road.

There is a friend of mine that I reconnected with a couple of years ago but tend to avoid because she asked me not to discuss my being gay around her since she loves the sinner but hates the sin.

I am sorry call me friggin Popeye I yam what I yam!

I will not hide and I will not feel ashamed and I will not let you group me with people who made unfortunate choices.

The next person that tries to invade my life to show me the sin of my ways will get the same treatment.

[Andara Bledin]

One thing to note is that the entire message isn't purely about religious actions; it merely points out that many religious actions are actually against the most basic tenets of the religion. However, he points out that this is a human foible, committed by all, religious and non-religious alike.

I keep saying this exact same thing, but usually get beaten down because religion makes a handier scapegoat than human nature, because if it's human nature then there's a possibility that those who aren't religious just might be guilty of the same exact thing.

Which brings us right back around to the article. We must, as individuals, regardless of situation, be accepting that we have faults and that others have faults and that those faults (both real and imagined) alone are not a reason to sow hatred.

Not against the gays. Not against the straights. Not against the homeless. Not against the rich. Not against the right. Not against the left. Not against the atheists. Not against the religious. Not against anyone.

^-.-^

[smileyeagle1021]

I keep saying this exact same thing, but usually get beaten down because religion makes a handier scapegoat than human nature, because if it's human nature then there's a possibility that those who aren't religious just might be guilty of the same exact thing.

sorry, religion is still massively to blame even if it is human nature, without religion "human nature" has no justification... it takes religion to make murder acceptable (to kill an infidel is not murder, it is the path to heaven... sound familiar?)

[Iseeyouthere]

"Oh but we don't hate the gays we love them we just want to help them understand they are sinning and help them stop sinning" (paraphrasing the comments that boil down to that)

Can I be forgiven for wanting to really hurt someone bad is they were to ever say this in my presence?

[Kheldarson]

sorry, religion is still massively to blame even if it is human nature, without religion "human nature" has no justification... it takes religion to make murder acceptable (to kill an infidel is not murder, it is the path to heaven... sound familiar?)

Uh...no. The term jihad is still widely debated in meaning, although the majority of Muslims tend to define it as a personal struggle. The extremists like to interpret it much like the Christians did the term Crusade during the Middle Ages. And honestly, while the Crusades did have a religious overtone, it was much more about politics and economics than religion, which mostly served as a uniting factor. Cuz who's really going to follow a slogan of "Come fight in this far away land to try and help alleviate the sheer number of younger sons we have in the kingdoms who are dying to act all noble and shit and run stuff". Yeah...not likely.

Human nature always finds justification. Ug wants stick. Og has stick. Ug beats Og's brains in because he selfish jerk who wouldn't give up stick. Totally Og's fault.

Religion just becomes another excuse to make us feel better in those cases. Ug has been commanded by gods to have stick. Og keeps stick for self. Ug beats Og's brains in because he wouldn't give up stick to the chosen one. Totally Og's fault.

[fireheart17]

Uh...no. The term jihad is still widely debated in meaning, although the majority of Muslims tend to define it as a personal struggle.

I did a paper on that for uni as part of a topic on terrorism. Basically it can be split into two forms: greater jihad and lesser jihad. Greater jihad is the "personal" jihad. Then there's the lesser jihad, which is known as "jihad of the sword". There are a whole bunch of rules surrounding jihad however, one of which from memory is that you're not to kill innocent people.

Extremists in general tend to twist ANY aspect of religion to suit their own needs. The Adelaide Street Church down my way (see my thread on that) twists around the Bible completely to suit their own needs and justifications. There's an example somewhere which involves their justification being based on a particular sentence. The sentence was not only half-finished, it was actually stripped of the whole paragraph around it: a naked "term" if you will.

[Kheldarson]

That's why context is everything when studying the Bible. And not just what's immediately going on in the passage, but also in the book (as in section) as a whole and also historically (both in the academic sense and salvation sense).

I would assume the same would go for the Qu'ran to an extent.

[Andara Bledin]

sorry, religion is still massively to blame even if it is human nature, without religion "human nature" has no justification... it takes religion to make murder acceptable (to kill an infidel is not murder, it is the path to heaven... sound familiar?)

Ok, so what justification do you have for bashing Christians for saying they're Christian but doing nothing against you personally?

Did religion make you do it?

You seem to be missing the entire point of the article.

It's about how it isn't the fault of religion at all, since every religion says not to do this sort of thing.

Unfortunately, people tend to be shallow, petty, mean-spirited, small-minded, and insecure creatures who are more likely to tear someone else down than to put in the effort to raise themselves up.

The better person, the enlightened person, the loving person does not tear others down, even when those other think and act in ways alien to them.

One would think that someone who is persecuted for being different would not do the same back... Adding hate to hate does nothing but create more hate.

^-.-^

[Gravekeeper]

Extremists in general tend to twist ANY aspect of religion to suit their own needs.

^ That right there.

Religion doesn't make you a terrible person, it gives you an excuse to be a terrible person.

If you take religion out of this issue, you're left with a group of total assholes without any reason or excuse beyond hate. With religion though, they can try and justify it to themselves by finding some obscure badly translated passage that vaguely suggests what they think. ;p

[siead_lietrathua]

@ Salted Grump:

thank you for posting this. i never would have seen it if not for this site.
my parents have been wondering for years why i dont see the dire need for joining the pack of church and converting-people-mentality.
this article says what i think better than i could ever articulate, and i've forwarded it to them.
so just...
thanks.

[Duelist925]

^ That right there.

Religion doesn't make you a terrible person, it gives you an excuse to be a terrible person.

If you take religion out of this issue, you're left with a group of total assholes without any reason or excuse beyond hate. With religion though, they can try and justify it to themselves by finding some obscure badly translated passage that vaguely suggests what they think. ;p

I am strongly remind of a certain southpark episode....

Idiot, hateful, bigoted morons will find a way to twist anything round to justify their actions....I have seen people, professing to be atheist, bashing on gays since "homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end" and thus shouldn't exist.
...
...
...I think I gave myself a concussion from that facepalm.

[Mytical]

Sorry, too many fights have been started about other things (race, materials, etc) for me to buy that only religion is to blame. No offense. Person a says "Hey we can kill these people because they are not our race!" or "We can kill these people because they are the reason for the economy being bad!" or ... well you get the point. PEOPLE will take any excuse..religion is just one.

[Andara Bledin]

This article is a shining example of what we, as people and as individuals, should be doing.

The story of a man who, when faced with somebody doing something unpleasant to him, chose to be the better human being.

From the article:

"I figure, you know, if you treat people right, you can only hope that they treat you right. It's as simple as it gets in this complicated world."

^-.-^

[Teysa]

That's really neat. I wonder what ended up happening with that kid. Of course if life were a Hallmark movie, he'd end up seeing the error of his ways and turning into a street preacher.