Standards of Decency

[the_std]

I've noticed a lot of threads on CS that where the sucky customers featured are prominently mentioned because of their physical appearance, but the one that made me start this thread was this particular post. So there are several questions to be asked here.

Can people be sucky customers specifically because of how they dress and/or their physical appearance?

Does this standard change when a physically attractive person is wearing "odd" or "inappropriate" clothing?

How much of a responsibility to society does one have to present themselves "decently" before heading out the door?

How does one measure this standard of decency for the whole of society and who gets to dictate this standard?

Please note that I am mainly referring to Westernized first-world countries, as I know customs and practices in other countries can vary wildly.

[Rapscallion]

It's something I've pondered from time to time.

I don't have any real answers for you, barring that societal norms are that certain things are deemed acceptable or attractive by a large section of the population.

To a certain extent, I suppose it's like the US first amendment. One person has the right to say whatever they want, but there's no guarantee that anyone else wants to hear it.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

It's rude to dress inappropriately in public. Wearing a sports bra as a top is rude. It proclaims to the world at large, "You people are not worth getting dressed for."

I am NOT saying that wearing improper clothing in public should be made illegal. As long as someone has covered their naughty bits and are not violating health codes, personal freedom of expression is paramount.

But there are articles of clothing that decent people do not wear outside their homes. I saw a man the other day wearing a t-shirt that read simply "Fuck Off." What an obnoxious thing to make perfect strangers look at. What an asshole it makes him look like.

I'm not asking for much, since I generally feel one should not be judged on their appearance. I simply ask that people wear some fabric on their top and lower halves that provides more coverage than lingerie. And I'd prefer it if that fabric did not have profanity on it. And shoes, please.

If someone is wearing something that fits that definition, then any comments or judgements passed on their clothing is uncalled for -- and rude. I see more of that on CS than I do anything else. (Why should anyone care if someone likes pink camo?)

As far as the question of "who sets standards of decency": We all do. There may come a day when I'm in the minority and most people believe that wearing a sports bra to a shop is acceptable. I don't believe that day has arrived, thank god.

[the_std]

But there are articles of clothing that decent people do not wear outside their homes.

This is another piece of the puzzle that I maybe should have included in my original post. In relation to clothing, what exactly does the term "decent people" mean? What is it about clothing that makes someone a "decent" person? Personally, I've only ever seen the term used to try to guilt people into behaving by the speaker's standard of decency. "Decent people would support my campaign" or "decent people wouldn't use a word like that" or so on and so forth. I find it to be such loaded word that it is hard to take it seriously in conversation, but I am curious as to other peoples' interpretation of it.

[Boozy]

When I say "decent people" I mean people who get dressed before leaving their house.

I know that probably sounds glib, but to me, decency vs. indecency is so obvious that I've never had to think about it. I don'[t understand why you find it to be a loaded term.

[the_std]

Well, having that definition definitely helps. But I find it loaded because, as I said, I've only ever seen it used when the speaker is trying to guilt other people into doing what they (the speaker) feel is right. I've never really seen it used in neutral conversation.

[BlaqueKatt]

It's rude to dress inappropriately in public. Wearing a sports bra as a top is rude. It proclaims to the world at large, "You people are not worth getting dressed for."

Sorry but when I'm riding my bike in 90+ degree heat I'm sorry I'll just be "rude" by your standards*-but I guess it's ok because the guy with his shirt off due to the heat is more "rude" I guess.


*I wear a sport bra only as wearing anything else I risk heat stroke-and If I have to stop into a store to pick up more water-so be it.


and it sounds like the girl from the OP was jogging and stopped into the store on her route-so probably a similar situation-I guess those of us that are out exercising should either carry extra clothing or die of dehydration rather than risk offending someone.......

[Boozy]

I don't think riding your bike on a hot day in a sports bra is rude. I would consider that appropriate exercise attire. I don't see a problem with wearing a sports bra at the gym, either.

There are obviously places and activities where skimpy clothes are expected, like at the beach. But it would be polite to throw a t-shirt on when one enters a retail establishment.

[AdminAssistant]

I come across a lot of this with students. The ones who literally roll out of bed, put on houseshoes, and come to class in their pajamas. Half the time, it doesn't even look like they've brushed their hair. It doesn't take much time to brush your hair, wash your face, brush your teeth, and put on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. Now, I freely admit that I do not always put on makeup or fix my hair beyond making sure it's neatly in a ponytail or clip. But for pity's sake, at least put on some real clothes before you go out.

Females do kind of get the crap end of this stick. It takes guys much less time to get ready and there are fewer social mores for them to adhere to. I would also say that it is not appropriate for a girl to come to class in a very lowcut top with extremely short shorts. (For the record, I don't think I guy should do that either. ) It's all about respect.

In terms of profanity, I agree, leave it at home. I don't even wear my "I Killed Amanda Palmer" t-shirt out in public, unless I'm going to, say, a rehearsal or something. It's just not polite.

[Cat]

While I won't go in a store wearing shorts and a sports bra (I hate my legs and have other body issues), I don't pay too much attention to what society says I should wear.

Meaning....on the weekends, I will wear the same shirt/jeans...I may not bother showering, and I will enter a store after a hike. (though sometimes I do get bored and put in make up....I just enjoy the way mineral powder feels )


Of course, the disclaimer I will add is, if I am going somewhere posh, I will dress up....but that happens once in a Plutonian year

[Flyndaran]

Appearance reflects ourselves, mentally and socially. I don't think any type of clothing or lack thereof should be limited as that is impinging on freedom of expression.
Yes, some types of attire are rude. So what? Freedom of expression is more about the uncomfortable to experience than the easy for all.

I prefer to criticise the unwashed stinkers. That's simply not something I can ignore or accept as a personal choice.

[Rapscallion]

Females do kind of get the crap end of this stick. It takes guys much less time to get ready and there are fewer social mores for them to adhere to. I would also say that it is not appropriate for a girl to come to class in a very lowcut top with extremely short shorts.

Maybe it's just me, but don't many of the social mores get put upon women by other women?

Rapscallion

[Nyoibo]

Yes, some types of attire are rude. So what? Freedom of expression is more about the uncomfortable to experience than the easy for all.

I prefer to criticise the unwashed stinkers. That's simply not something I can ignore or accept as a personal choice.

But that's just tough for you because "Freedom of expression is more about the uncomfortable to experience than the easy for all."

[Cat]

Maybe it's just me, but don't many of the social mores get put upon women by other women?

Rapscallion

Sure seems like it. Hense why I don't like much women.

[Boozy]

I don't think any type of clothing or lack thereof should be limited as that is impinging on freedom of expression.

I tried to head this one off in my first post, but looks like I'll need to quote myself:

I am NOT saying that wearing improper clothing in public should be made illegal. As long as someone has covered their naughty bits and are not violating health codes, personal freedom of expression is paramount.

No one has argued that improper clothing should be banned or made illegal. That's a strawman. I'm just arguing that it is rude to show up to certain places in certain types of clothing.