Community College the gateway to higher education?

[jackfaire]

My grades coming out of High School were abysmal. I spent my childhood being told I was so smart by all the adults and being treated like crap by all the kids for being smart so I did my best to be dumb.

My options were limited community college (one funded partly by the state) gave me opportunities that I had stupidly thrown away.

[Giggle Goose]

The CC system in California is confusing. The public Universities are split between what they call the UC System and the Cal State System. The UC System is all of the University of California schools (UCLA, UC Berkeley, UC San Diego, etc) The Cal State System is, naturally, all of the Cal State Schools (Cal State Long beach, San Jose State, San Diego State, etc). Each system has their own requirements for what they will and will not accept as a CC transfer.

I'm sorry I sound so dumb for asking this, but doesn't one system have zero cost for admission? I thought I heard that somewhere but I could very well be wrong . My dad lives in California but didn't move out there until after I graduated college, but I was always wonder if things would have been easier if he moved out there earlier and I went to school out there. Just for shits and gigs.

[AdminAssistant]

Hmmm around here the local community college classes are taught by professors while the 4 year university classes are mostly taught by TAs(undergrads)*-who's getting the better education?

*the PhDs that are supposed to be teaching are busy doing research to get and or keep their tenure, uni requires a set amount of research/published papers from it's professors(to bring in revenue)-community college does not.

From the other thread.

First of all, I have never heard of an undergraduate TA. Teaching Assistants are usually graduate students who teach lower-level classes in exchange for tuition waivers and a small salary. This also gives us a chance to build up teaching experience. I am a TA, and a damn good one, thanks. My students get a quality education, in fact, one they wouldn't even get at a community college, since most CC's don't have courses in theatre. Or they have "Drama" taught by someone in English (i.e. completely unqualified to teach theatre). TA's get this shit all the time, that we aren't qualified, that we're horrible teachers. Fact is, we're learning to teach, and the only way we can learn is to teach students. We're all closely supervised by a faculty member and evaluated yearly just like faculty are.

Whether or not a University requires a lot of research/publications from a faculty member depends on the classification of the University. A small liberal arts college or a small land-grant college will not, generally, require many publications for tenure. (Of course, a professor from said institution may choose to publish a lot as a means to improve their career.) At a R-1 institution (or Research University) professors are expected to do outside research and publish a certain amount before getting tenure, usually in their 6th year of employment. This is not so much to "bring in revenue", as many scholarly texts do not bring a profit for anyone except the Press/Publisher, which is usually not at the university where the professor is employed. For example, one of my professors (at KU) just published a book through University of Michigan Press. The research, however, does add to the prestige of the university and increases its standing in the academic community. The only revenue increase would come from increased enrollment of students wanting to study with a renowned professor in a particular field. (What I wouldn't give to have a class with Odai Johnson!)

ETA: The breakdown at a R-1 University is supposed to be 40% teaching, 40% research, 20% service. Yes, there are faculty who view teaching as a chore and a means to fund their research. But there are many more that do love to teach, love to do research, and balance the two. Quite frankly, I wouldn't want a teacher who wasn't always researching or staying on top of the latest knowledge in their field.

[smileyeagle1021]

From the other thread.

First of all, I have never heard of an undergraduate TA. Teaching Assistants are usually graduate students who teach lower-level classes in exchange for tuition waivers and a small salary.

I have. When I was at USU as an engineering student, I had three lab classes that were taught by undergrads who were in their senior year. For one of my classes, the class was taught by a professor, but then for the QandA we split off into groups that were taught by someone who's only required qualification is that they took the class and got at least a B.
When it comes to the upper level courses, USU has an amazing program for engineering (as well as other programs, but I wasn't in any of those ), but for the lower level courses, the people down in Salt Lake Community College are getting a much better education. Actual professors (or at least associate professors who need to have a least a masters), the lab aides are almost all exclusively CC graduates, and the peer tutors (this may have changed) need to have gotten an A in the class. Also the average class size is smaller.

I will admit, the Wasatch Front may be the exception, not the rule, but at least here, unless you really need the prestige, you are just as well off, if not better off, starting out at the CC.

[BlaqueKatt]

First of all, I have never heard of an undergraduate TA.

you have to pay a grad student more than you do a senior undergrad. The uni here is all about saving money and sports-and not so much about higher learning. The dean makes more of a salary than the professors-and the board of regents just condemned a building that stood in the way to build a new building(that they haven't got the funding or plans for*, rather than stick to an agreement made after a year of negotiations)

We're all closely supervised by a faculty member and evaluated yearly just like faculty are

While this may be true of your uni-it is not true of all of them.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't want a teacher who wasn't always researching or staying on top of the latest knowledge in their field.

this would be true if the teacher was actually, teaching-but here they pretty much don't-so their gathering of knowledge is not being passed on, as they're too busy researching to actually teach.

*funding for the 51 million dollar building is supposed to come only from private donations-so far they only have 15 million-and they've raised tuition to cover expenses associated with it

[daleduke17]

As far as cost, yes, a 4-year college can be expensive. Which is why you need to bust ass in high school, get a good score on the SAT or ACT, and get a scholarship. Worked for me.

Now that's funny. Scholarships. I scored just well enough on the ACT (is that the one that scores to 32?) to be eligible for scholarships, but not well enough to actually get one. Plus, being a heterosexual white male who had parents who actually worked and were together during my school years didn't endear me to many scholarship groups.

[AdminAssistant]

The uni here is all about saving money and sports-and not so much about higher learning. The dean makes more of a salary than the professors...

[snip]

While this may be true of your uni-it is not true of all of them.

My university is also all about saving money, which is why they've cut TA positions, reduced the number of tenured faculty, cut classes, etc. Our state is, well, broke, and the legislature has refused ARRA money that would go to higher education...because it would go to higher education. Then again, it is Kansas. I am lucky to go to a school where not only does the athletic program pay for itself, it actually gives money BACK to the university. It's a rare, rare case, though, and they way other schools fund athletics over education is disgusting.

It is true of my uni and is true of many others that I looked at. I'm just asking that you not paint all TA's with the same brush. It's like someone saying all customer service workers are bitchy or lazy. I am qualified to teach these classes and lead discussions, and so are my peers.

You know, if you want to give your tuition monies to the Greater PoDunk County Community College, Hair Salon, and Auto Shop...go for it. But I hate to see students throw their money away on what will be a worthless piece of paper, or waste two years taking substandard courses, then be shocked when they transfer to a 4-year college, which has a completely different atmosphere.

Plus, being a heterosexual white male who had parents who actually worked and were together during my school years didn't endear me to many scholarship groups.

Ah, the ol' "I'm a middle-class white male" excuse. Excuse me while I weep many tears for the plight of the WASP male, truly an endangered species that has suffered much. Except you haven't. A lot of academic scholarships don't take into consideration any other criteria than the scores, and perhaps need. Being a heterosexual white female hasn't affected me one way or the other when it comes to scholarships or being accepted into grad programs.

ETA: The ACT scores to a 36.

[crashhelmet]

Ah, the ol' "I'm a middle-class white male" excuse. Excuse me while I weep many tears for the plight of the WASP male, truly an endangered species that has suffered much. Except you haven't. A lot of academic scholarships don't take into consideration any other criteria than the scores, and perhaps need. Being a heterosexual white female hasn't affected me one way or the other when it comes to scholarships or being accepted into grad programs.

Yes, a lot of academic scholarships do not take into account what the applicant's sex or race are. And as a result the chances of getting that scholarship are slimmer for everyone that applies because everyone is applying.

However, minorities and women have scholarship programs designed strictly for them. White males don't have that option. This goes back to the many discrimination threads.

Middle class? I can vouch from experience. My parents made too much for me to qualify for any kind of Federal Aide to help with my tuition and living costs at the time, but with 3 kids still at home they didn't have the money to pay what was needed. It seriously limited my options of where I could goto school. So, instead of going to UF, I went to UCF. I lived at home and commuted for the first semester instead of living in the dorms. When my dad got transferred to California, I had to move in with a cousin and continue my commute.

CH

[McDreidel09]

Aren't scholarships available through the school itself?

I know at my college, we are very heavily male populated and the biggest major we have is engineering, so they do have some scholarships for women who are in that field, since there are more men than women in it. Other than that, the scholarships are based on grades, majors, and extra curricular activities.

You can't sit there and tell me that out of the millions of scholarships available, that you can find if you try (internet is fantastic for this), you could not find at least a few that you could qualify for. My Senior year of High School, I was flooded with scholarship applications, most of them were not gender or race specific. Hell, I won one without applying. It was a scholarship in my late gym teacher's name that was started by his daughter for one education major (any gender or race) and they gave it to me.

[smileyeagle1021]

Now that's funny. Scholarships. I scored just well enough on the ACT (is that the one that scores to 32?) to be eligible for scholarships, but not well enough to actually get one. Plus, being a heterosexual white male who had parents who actually worked and were together during my school years didn't endear me to many scholarship groups.

While the heterosexual white male part is debatable on how much it has affected scholarships (I'm still waiting for the flaming homo scholarship to come through, so far I've not found one).
The income one though is what really bothers me. I won't go into specifics on my mother's income, but I will say, she has THREE bachelors degrees (computer science, business, and accounting), she makes enough money that I walk into a financial aide office and I'm laughed out of the building...
The problem is I'm laughed out before I can spit out the part that nearly a full third of her income goes to medical expenses (either her own or paying off the debt she incurred to pay for my grandma's medical expenses). For me to not have to report her income (which is not a fair basis considering her NEEDED expenses) I either have to wait another two years or be married (which will take a hell of a lot longer than two years to be legalized, short of a plague that targets only those who are conservative christian).
Really, why is it that everywhere OTHER than universities/colleges you're considered an adult and self sufficient at 18, yet the educational system considers you a dependent of your parent until you are 25?