How is posing for lad's mags "degrading?"

[Plaidman]

NOW is today comprised of fat, ugly, bitter jealous women who do nothing but cut down lad's mags and women who are more attractive than them.


Finally, this next sentence is not about NOW, but I just want to say it anyway. I know that everyone dislikes a certain celebrity or two. But when a person starts looking at every attractive female celeb and starts saying things like, "She has no talent, her boobs must be fake, she's ugly, she's a ho" and other put downs it's tough to explain away. Either you're jealous of the person(s) or have really bad self-esteem issues.

Sorry about the long-winded nature of this post....

So. it's perfectly naturally and right and good to insult ugly people. Very very wrong to insult attractive people. Not very onesided at all are you?

EDIT: @ Plaidman: . Are you suggesting that everyone be forced to never consider looks for any reason whatsoever? as much as it shouldn't be the be-all-end-all of a woman's value, it's not an intrinsically evil thing in and of it's self. People preferring looks over brains is no more an injustice to unattractive people than preferring brains over looks is an injustice to unintelligent people.

Yes. Yes I am suggesting that looks should never be the decided factor in anything.

Last post before I go to bed....

NOW is fighting a losing battle if they want to "protect women from becoming objects to men." ALL straight men will look at a girl they find attractive (either in real life or in print/online), and envision kissing her, stripping her, and having sex with her. It's called "sex by eyeball."

It's how men are wired. If you think otherwise you're kidding yourself and so is NOW. Like I said, they want to crap on men for being men.

A very attractive woman called into a local radio station some months ago when they were talking about the sex by eyeball thing and she said, "When I go out in any sort of tank top or skin-revealing outfit guys ogle me and do the sex by eyeball thing. It's gross." What did the one of the DJ's say to her? He said, "If you don't like it go to a gay bar. You can't ask straight men to stop envisioning having sex with you."

Should men look beyond the looks? Of course. But when you first meet someone, you have to be attracted to them because you have nothing more to go on other than what you see. The other stuff (personality, etc) comes next.

I am freak of nature, seeing as I've judged women on who they are first before I ever considered looks. I've called women beautiful, I've considered them incredibly attractive, but never thought of them in sex positions first. I learn about them before I think anything else.

By the way, you going to tell your daughter that? If she gets ooggles and manhandled by guys, "Well, ya shouldn't have dressed like that! You shouldn't be so damn hot! You don't want the leers, looks, deprave thoughts, don't fucking even think of leaving the house.

Is that how your dad saw your mom? "man, I wanna smack that ass hard?" before he learned a thing about her otherwise? According to your logic that's how it works.

"No. Your acting like a jackass that only values women for how they look."---This is where I have a problem: the word "only." Where do people get the idea that, because someone enjoys looking at beautiful models, looks are all they care about? Even when that's all they're thinking of at the moment, that doesn't logically even *imply* that it's all they care about in general.

So far the men in this thread has yet to say anything they find attractive in a woman other then they must be beauitful before they date them.




My own notes:

I really thought CS and this place was different. I thought this place would treat people with respect.

Now I find that this is just as bad as everywhere else, where no-one treats anyone that even looks the least bit unattractive or hell, normal with respect. They tear into what they look like, and defend everyone that is attractive. Hell, I bet if any of those super attractive models attacked and murdered babies, beat puppies down the street, robbed old ladies (ugly ones), and they'd still treat her like a goddess because she is /hot/.
People just fucking scream, and insult, and try to destroy everything about a person based on fucking facial figures, or weight, or any other thing they hate but defend and worship anyone they find hot.

The outside looks, tell NOTHING of a persons worth. AT ALL. I'm so SICK of this stupid shit.

JUST TREAT PEOPLE WITH RESPECT, rather then just going BLEH! HE or SHE UGLY! they don't deserve to be looked at or even heard, try talking to them, learn about them.

Is it so hard to do that? Can you just not be so gungho on how someone's looks is who they are? Of course you can't. You just launched a full crusade, and demonized a group of people's stands and beliefs, solely based on how. they. looked.

That is a sick viewpoint.

[shroo]

Why not just objectify both genders equally--then both men and women will be held to absurd visual standards.

No, really--I'm tired of watching porn with "hot" women and...wierd looking men. If I want to buy a dirty magazine what are my options? Playgirl? Belch, those guys are nto my type. I like the scary rocker boy, the big cuddly teddy bear, the geek with the goofy smile (**melt**). Men get all sorts of options and choices and women are left buying gay porn for their beefcake.
Well, no more I say! If we really want to talk about equality let's talk about equal smutty magazines!

Because dammit they have Suicide Girls--I want my Suicide Boys!!



And then I can go on living my life not really giving a ra'ts ass what society thinks of my boyfriend because *I* think he's fucking hot as hell

[AdminAssistant]

And then I can go on living my life not really giving a ra'ts ass what society thinks of my boyfriend because *I* think he's fucking hot as hell

Mmhmm. My SO is sexy as hell to me, and I to him. Of course, in Hemi's world, I'm just a fat, unattractive moo cow who is jealous of all women with socially appropriate boob-to-waist ratio. What man would choose me when they can chase after hot women, regardless of their personality?

As I said before, NOW is probably over-reacting, and if they're going down this list they need to include Cosmo and other women's magazines. What I am challenging is the absurd notion that every woman who speaks out against women making themselves into masturbation fodder must be ugly, fat, unattractive and insanely jealous of these "beauties." They're concerned about women's position in the world. They're not jealous. And as I said before, I'm not jealous of them, of the woman who got fired from the bank, or of your ladies in South Beach. I'm doing just fine, thank you very much.

And you know what? Men can be men all they like, but they do not have the right to make women uncomfortable by leering, creeping, and undressing with their eyes. That is sexual harassment. I mean, how would you feel if an average woman walked up to you and just stared at your package for a while?

Oh, and a quick note about OnlyTease and Maxim. You can say it's not porn, but it serves the same purpose as Playboy, Hustler, and the Sport's Illustrated swimsuit issue.

[fireheart17]

If that's true, if this is about the children, then why only go after men's magazines? Why not the entire entertainment industry? I haven't noticed any outcry from NOW about scantily clad men or those sexiest man lists being degrading. Where is the outrage over that?

I'm actually more surprised that they haven't gone against Hooters or strip clubs. (We don't have any of the former and we only have two that I'm aware of in South Australia. I think there are others but I'm not sure)

I hate girls magazines because after reading one I know that I don't wear the right clothes, my hairstyle and colour is pathetic, I need to use tricks to catch and keep a man, I need to wear cute little heels so guys will notice me, and that I need to wear makeup because a bare face is an ugly face.

Beyond that, guys mags are funny and witty and they usually cover topics that are actually interesting.

I actually think that girls mags are far more degrading and harmful to girls these days than mens mags will ever be. Why isn't NOW going after them?

The models chose to pose for the mens magazines. Anyone can choose to read the magazine, or they can simply pass it by. And for the most part, there are age restrictions to buy them, there isn't for girly magazines.

I can pretty much agree with all of this. I stopped reading girly mags shortly after I turned 18. The only Cosmopolitan/CLEO magazines I'll buy these days either a) have a free gift that I would most definitely use (which is rare-this is more stuff like normally expensive makeup, certain clothing or bags) b) have a decent showbag at the local show and I'll ONLY stick to reading the articles, I ignore the rest or c) it's a special issue dealing with sex (more to get tips for sexy games )

No, really--I'm tired of watching porn with "hot" women and...wierd looking men. If I want to buy a dirty magazine what are my options? Playgirl? Belch, those guys are nto my type. I like the scary rocker boy, the big cuddly teddy bear, the geek with the goofy smile (**melt**). Men get all sorts of options and choices and women are left buying gay porn for their beefcake.
Well, no more I say! If we really want to talk about equality let's talk about equal smutty magazines!

If you try the two standard porno sites I can think of (youporn and redtube) you should hopefully be able to find a video to suit your tastes.

As I said before, NOW is probably over-reacting, and if they're going down this list they need to include Cosmo and other women's magazines.

There's even talk down here in Ausland about restricting some of the kids girly magazines for similar reasons regarding the whole sexualisation of children, protect them while we still can etc. Funnily enough, nobody bats an eye at wanting to ban the boys magazines. (These are magazines like Barbie, Total Girl and Little Angel by the way-normally marketed for kids aged between 6-12/13. Those were the big three that came up in the argument, nobody batted an eyelid at the D-Girls mag)

[Boozy]

Everyone else is making some very good, intelligent arguments. So I'm feeling free to nitpick a few minor points:

I bet if I told you I'm a fan of Kim Kardashian, you would probably find a way to trash her as well.

Kim Kardashian is a ridiculous human being. Regardless of what she looks like.

Would I like a girl who looks like Jodie Gasson? Hell yeah (She said in an interview she likes geeky guys ). But I have to think realistically....

I think this is an appropriate time to share this:

[HEMI6point1]

And you know what? Men can be men all they like, but they do not have the right to make women uncomfortable by leering, creeping, and undressing with their eyes. That is sexual harassment. I mean, how would you feel if an average woman walked up to you and just stared at your package for a while?

Girls have never stared at my "package."

And I never said leering and creeping. Like I said before, "sex by eyeball" is a completely normal male thing. Sexual harassment? You have to be kidding.

Kim Kardashian is a ridiculous human being. Regardless of what she looks like.

Okay if you're talking about how she got famous, then yeah I'll agree. But there is no doubt that she is a breath of fresh air compared to the scary skinny celebs that are usually forced upon us.

[Kimmik]

A very attractive woman called into a local radio station some months ago when they were talking about the sex by eyeball thing and she said, "When I go out in any sort of tank top or skin-revealing outfit guys ogle me and do the sex by eyeball thing. It's gross." What did the one of the DJ's say to her? He said, "If you don't like it go to a gay bar. You can't ask straight men to stop envisioning having sex with you."

so men are allowed to view women as sex objects and if it make the woman uncomfortable well tough shit....

Hmmm now why would NOW have a problem with making women objects... hmmm

And while none of the NOW leaders are my type... I prefer outies... I wouldn't say they were ugly... well sure by "Normal" standards they are plain and dressed prudishly, and my god no makeup...

But If you want to bash an organization that wants to stamp out the kind of thought that I qouted go for it.. but realize that qoute does nothing but prove that men *most not all* see women as sex objects that they can drool over and stare at... and well if the woman is uncomfortable... SHE should go out of her way to avoid men that cant control themselves..

[HEMI6point1]

so men are allowed to view women as sex objects and if it make the woman uncomfortable well tough shit....

Hmmm now why would NOW have a problem with making women objects... hmmm

And while none of the NOW leaders are my type... I prefer outies... I wouldn't say they were ugly... well sure by "Normal" standards they are plain and dressed prudishly, and my god no makeup...

But If you want to bash an organization that wants to stamp out the kind of thought that I qouted go for it.. but realize that qoute does nothing but prove that men *most not all* see women as sex objects that they can drool over and stare at... and well if the woman is uncomfortable... SHE should go out of her way to avoid men that cant control themselves..

"Sex by eyeball" is a perfectly natural, normal thought process for any straight man. The reason why the DJ told that woman to go visit a gay bar if she doesn't like it is because she was objecting to a normal male thought process.

Most guys can do the "sex by eyeball" and keep it to themselves and not be too obvious about it.

"Can't control themselves?" That's a dangerous viewpoint. To me, a guy loses control when he starts leering at a girl for a long time as if she's the only pretty girl he's ever seen or starts groping a woman or worse.

[MaggieTheCat]

Girls have never stared at my "package."

But it's okay for guys to stare at a girl's breasts or ass? I think that's the point AA was trying to make. Guys stare at girls all the time, particularly at their breasts, but most girls probably don't stare at a man's sexual bits. Have you ever talked to a girl who stared between your legs instead of into your eyes? 'cuz a lot of guys stare at a girl's breasts when they're trying to talk to her, and that is very disconcerting.

[Nyoibo]

Funny, I hear all this carry on about men ogling women, viewing them as sex objects and being concerned about their looks, but I hear nothing about women doing it, they do it just as much as men do, they are just as crass and vulgar as men and it's just as many women as men, in fact the worst behavior I've seen has been from women.

[Plaidman]

NOW is today comprised of fat, ugly, bitter jealous women who do nothing but cut down lad's mags and women who are more attractive than them. Not to mention seek out to make men seem like scum. Think about it. When was the last time you saw an attractive NOW member? I sure haven't.


Finally, this next sentence is not about NOW, but I just want to say it anyway. I know that everyone dislikes a certain celebrity or two. But when a person starts looking at every attractive female celeb and starts saying things like, "She has no talent, her boobs must be fake, she's ugly, she's a ho" and other put downs it's tough to explain away. Either you're jealous of the person(s) or have really bad self-esteem issues.

Sorry about the long-winded nature of this post....

1: So it's fine to insult ugly people since your doing it, but if someone insults a attractive person, that is just wrong and person doing it is jealous? Wow.

[KnitShoni]

Simple, and likely like all people say, Kids.

They see it screaming on TV LOOK HOT! NO-ONE WILL LOVE YOU IF YOUR HOT!

Yeah, it's parents job to raise kids, but really, in this day in and age where most people have two-three kids, and have two jobs each just to make means meet, likely means they don't have as much time to raise their kids right.

So they see how much attention they get versus what they have now. So yeah, they make themselves look hot. Of course they don't have a problem. They are rich. Popular. and HOT.

The three things that people judge everyone on first. Their looks. How rich they are. And if they are /cool/ or not.

Coming back to this point: I've been doing some looking. I don't see NOW anywhere on the subject of child beauty pageants. After all, these are women dragging their little girls through a process that causes them to be judged almost solely by their looks. Why is that not an issue to them, but adult women doing their jobs (because these women are models, actresses, singers. Professions THEY chose. Professions that are based at least in large part, if not solely, on how they LOOK) is called degrading?

[HEMI6point1]

Coming back to this point: I've been doing some looking. I don't see NOW anywhere on the subject of child beauty pageants. After all, these are women dragging their little girls through a process that causes them to be judged almost solely by their looks. Why is that not an issue to them, but adult women doing their jobs (because these women are models, actresses, singers. Professions THEY chose. Professions that are based at least in large part, if not solely, on how they LOOK) is called degrading?

NOW should be going after these child pageants. Many times the girls are pushed into doing them and the parents should be ashamed.

But they don't because they probably feel that "it'll insult the defenseless kids." So instead they'll go after the adult women that pose for lad's mags and glamour paysites out of their own free will.

BTW, lad's mags like Maxim and Loaded and glamour paysites like Onlytease are based in the UK, where they have a much more liberal view on sex and nudity than the US does. I mean really, the UK features topless models in the daily newspapers! (Page 3, for example).

As far as bashing those publications for wanting to book women for shoots "solely based on looks," I've said it once and I'll say it again: us heterosexual men are paying for a subscription aimed at heterosexual men. We want to look at women who are - GASP! - beautiful, not who look like Rosie O'Donnell.

I'll make a car comparison. My dad and I go to the NHRA Gatornationals every year. We pay good money to see souped-up hot rods, purpose-built race cars and nitro dragsters and funny cars, because that is what we and other fans expect to see at that type of event. A translation of some people's complaints here would be guys with jalopies and Civics pitching a fit because the NHRA won't let them compete at a national event. If I wanted to see that I'd go to a free test-and-tune at a more local track where it's filled with jalopies and Civics.

The two subjects may be completely different, but the principle is the same.

[HEMI6point1]

But it's okay for guys to stare at a girl's breasts or ass? I think that's the point AA was trying to make. Guys stare at girls all the time, particularly at their breasts, but most girls probably don't stare at a man's sexual bits. Have you ever talked to a girl who stared between your legs instead of into your eyes? 'cuz a lot of guys stare at a girl's breasts when they're trying to talk to her, and that is very disconcerting.

I will agree if a man stares at a woman's breasts for much of a conversation that's a bit much.

However, no matter what the setting, if a girl is wearing something where her boobs are hanging half-way out or showing any sort of cleavage I'm going to look. Not stare the entire time, but look. It's completely natural and normal.

If women complain that they can't wear anything low-cut or sexy without men glancing at their boobs, then wear a fucking turtleneck because it's not going to stop.

[jackfaire]

But it's okay for guys to stare at a girl's breasts or ass? .

Just to point out the girls, in my experience, that complain about this dress specifically to show off their sexual assets.

If guys dressed to show off their packages then yes there would probably be a lot of staring at our sexual bits too.