Did Wal-Mart screw us or did we, as a society, screw ourselves?

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

By now we should all know the story: Wal-Mart, looking to gain a competitive edge, starts heavily importing goods from China so they can sell them for less than the competition and drive more customers to their stores.

The competitors, not wanting to be left in the dust. begin to realize the only way they can effectively compete with Wal-Mart is to import products themselves.

Thus begins a long and destructive erosion of product quality, the American manufacturing sector, employee wages and benefits and the traditional Mom and Pop shop.

We live in a price driven economy. I am guilty of this myself. I like getting things for as little as possible. Unfortunately, in today's rather delicate economic situation, this problem has only become exacerbated as people look to find ways to stretch a limited income as much as possible.

But it's our desire for low, low prices that causes people to get hurt.

Think for a moment about HOW they get the prices so low.

It's a basic formula: If you are going to lower prices, you are going to have to cope with reduced dollars in sales. The only way to weather this without going bankrupt is by trimming costs so you can both charge the lower prices and continue to thrive as a company.

This means that the low prices we all love have come at the expense of full-time jobs, healthier wages, stronger benefits and so forth.

Not to mention the people that are employed at those low wages are continually expected to work harder and be more productive in return for...well, nothing save the thrill of continuing to have a job.

But who is to blame for this? Wal-Mart and similar companies, for seeking to bw competitive and searching out cheaper and cheaper products?

Or is it us and our endless appetite for low prices?

[TheHuckster]

Both parties are guilty of the same sin: greed. Consumers want things to cost less without any regard to the overall effect on the economy and the quality of their products, and the retailers want consumers to buy from their stores, and the most straightforward way is to reduce price which is done by reducing their operating costs.

I think, however, the greatest cause of the problem is technology. And this is on two fronts:

1.) The cost to ship items overseas has been greatly reduced in the last few decades thanks to advances in freight technology.

2.) Components are much more electronic, meaning less accessible to repair. Back in the old days if your television was on the fritz you took it to the repair shop and a guy with competent mechanical skills could fix it by tightening a loose vacuum tube or replacing a faulty wire. Now components are smaller and are all interconnected in such a way that you're better off just buying a whole new TV... this means there's now a better incentive to give products like this a limited shelf life, which goes hand-in-hand with lower operating costs. It's a win-win for the manufacturers and retailers.

People used to really favor quality because while they paid a greater upfront cost, they were intending to hold on to the product for a far greater period of time. I believe a lot of the shift in this mindset is due to the speed in which technology is advancing now. Computers become obsolete within just a few years now, so who cares if the equipment doesn't last 10? DVD players started becoming replaced with BluRay players within 10 years, while VCRs lasted nearly 20 years. Now, with streaming technology becoming more and more available it's very possible even BluRay players will become dinosaurs in the next 10 years.

As long as the equipment today lasts only as long as they remain technologically relevant they can get away with cheaper and more disposable products. Add to that cheap shipping and policies which favor importing and you've got the economic landscape you see today where the United States is becoming more and more of a service-based economy.

[gremcint]

It's not always cost but selection, when walmart is the only place that has what I want then I gotta go to walmart.

The same thing for costco, I don't find them that much cheaper than other place really but there is so much there that other stores don't have.

[ngc_7331]

But it's our desire for low, low prices that causes people to get hurt.

But it's not always desire, sometimes it's necessity. For me it was anyway. I'm getting unemployment, which is not the greatest amount of money in the world, and I recently lost a -lot- of weight. To the point that my pants would hit the floor as soon as I put them on. I had to buy new clothes or walk around naked, which seems to be frowned upon in most states. I have a preferred brand of jeans, the a.n.a. jeans that I usually get at JC Penney. Problem is, they're $35 a pair. On the other hand, I can go to Walmart and get my second favorite brand of jeans, lei, for $18 a pair. So I go to Walmart but what other choice do I have?

[Duelist925]

Like NGC said--I don't have much choice where I shop right now, considering how little money I have.

I do think part of the problem is also corporate greed--how many part time jobs could Wallyworld make fulltime if they cut, say, one ceo's bonus's by ten percent? If they cut the golden parachutes as a whole by ten percent?

Overall, however, its a bit from each side--corpoerate green, massive ceo paychecks, and the want and need for the cheapest goods possible.

I AM hoping that the advant of net bartering and online shops will help more small , niche, business's thrive tho.

[Akasa]

I'm in the same boat as the others who don't have much money. I have about $100 a month I can use to go out to eat, buy clothes, or other things. $100 to last me a month. For toilet paper I go to Walmart and buy a big pack for $8. It lasts a month.

[fireheart17]

There's a lot of whinging down here about how Australian shops are SOOO damn expensive that people are "forced" to buy things online....namely luxuries, because the cost for necessities has gone up. HELLO PEOPLE, that's why they're called "LUXURIES!"

[HYHYBT]

2.) Components are much more electronic, meaning less accessible to repair. Back in the old days if your television was on the fritz you took it to the repair shop and a guy with competent mechanical skills could fix it by tightening a loose vacuum tube or replacing a faulty wire. Now components are smaller and are all interconnected in such a way that you're better off just buying a whole new TV... this means there's now a better incentive to give products like this a limited shelf life, which goes hand-in-hand with lower operating costs. It's a win-win for the manufacturers and retailers.

Well, yes and no. Yes, for many things that used to be repaired, you're better off buying a new one. But consider the other side of that: how many such items last far longer before needing their first repair than they used to... or even last longer with no repairs than the entire lifetime of their predecessors? Yes, vacuum tube TV's could be repaired fairly easily. But they also NEEDED repairs on a regular basis. And barring physical damage, a modern LCD is likely to last for at least as many hours of use as a CRT from the 90's, and when it does break, it may well be something that it would be difficult or impossible to make repairable in a cost-effective manner. (Try replacing rows of stuck pixels.)

[Panacea]

And barring physical damage, a modern LCD is likely to last for at least as many hours of use as a CRT from the 90's, and when it does break, it may well be something that it would be difficult or impossible to make repairable in a cost-effective manner. (Try replacing rows of stuck pixels.)

I have one of the first LCD TV's, a 15" Sony. It's still going strong after nearly 8 years. When it dies, I'll send it to electronics recycling. I've never tried to get a TV repaired. Every TV I've had has lasted about 15 years.

[Gravekeeper]

Its a self fullfilling prophecy. You brutally undercut every competitor in the area, they go out of business, everyone has to cut costs to stay competitive. So they pay their staff less, their staff have less money to shop, demand lower prices,
you cut costs to lower prices and pay your staff less.

In Walmart's case, they're an economic a-bomb. They wipe out every other business in the immediate area then start in on local suppliers. Driving down their revenue by demanding they supply Walmart at a lower price, and Walmart is now the one remaining buyer in the area for them. So they don't have much choice.

Till finally there's nothing left but Walmart and a freight line to China. >.>

As for technology though, technological progress is leveling out in recent years because the hardware advancement has so outstripped the pace of software advancement. Software still takes just as much time to develop. So technology has been refocusing on becoming smaller and more effecient rather then hankering on raw power.

It's a good direction, really and it means your hardware can last longer. Especially in the realm of computing. Use to be anything you bought was out of date inside of 6 months. Now at least you can get a couple years out of good components. -.-

[Rapscallion]

I think it's a case of Walmart taking advantage of human nature. Everyone says they want independent shops locally, but the reality is that they vote with their wallets for the cheapest prices.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

I think it's a case of Walmart taking advantage of human nature. Everyone says they want independent shops locally, but the reality is that they vote with their wallets for the cheapest prices.

Walmart effectively doesn't give you a choice. They'll wipe out anything else around them and they build ridiculous super centres where you can get your groceries, your hair cut, your taxes done and your oil changed in one go. Sure its iffy quality wise, but the convenience trumps everything. Its a level of competition a smaller business simply cannot match in any conviencable way.

Problem is, in wiping out local business, they also wipe out local employers. Till everyone likewise has to work at Walmart as well, and we all know how wonderful working for them is. ;p

[Rapscallion]

I was more thinking of the way they get to not giving a choice. Blatant human nature being exploited, and then the small shops are gone and there's no real turning back from that.

Rapscallion

[protege]

Walmart effectively doesn't give you a choice. They'll wipe out anything else around them and they build ridiculous super centres where you can get your groceries, your hair cut, your taxes done and your oil changed in one go. Sure its iffy quality wise, but the convenience trumps everything. Its a level of competition a smaller business simply cannot match in any conviencable way.

That's pretty much what has happened in my grandmother's old town. When I was a child, High Street (aka the main one) was pretty busy. Cars everywhere, shops lined both sides of the street. Then the 1980s recession came. Even so, business wasn't too bad. Stores were still open and did OK. By the 1990s, Wal-Mart had set up shop in surrounding areas--there was one a half-hour north, one a half-hour southeast...and things started to slow down. Rather than shop in town and get what you need close by...residents started driving out of town to "save money." Plus, you could find everything you needed under one roof. Instead of parking on High Street, walking up to Mickey's to buy a men's shirt, and then further up for a sandwich...you can do both without even going outside. By about 2005-6, it was all over. Wal-Mart came to her town as well. Now, there's nothing up town--an old Chinese restaurant, a few bars, banks, the hairdresser's, and that's it. Most traffic now is just passing through

I don't like the "big box" crap, and I avoid it whenever possible. Too many instances of shoddy goods, employees that don't know their products, and just a pain in the ass to find anything.

For example, I needed a quantity of fine-threaded Grade 8 nuts and bolts to rebuild the front suspension on my MG. Nobody had them--not the large auto-parts store, not Home Depot, Lowe's or anywhere else. I got lucky at a much smaller shop. They had some Grade 8, but not nearly enough to do the job. Instead, they pointed me to the local Ace Hardware a couple blocks away. They didn't have what I was looking for, but were happy to help me anyway. What big-box shop would have done that? I left happy, and anyone want to guess where I bought my stove, some tools, and other things I needed for home repairs? Yep, they got my business.

Uh, where was I going with this? Oh yes. All too often, people vote with their wallets, and then bitch about service, jobs, or other loss in their communities. Never mind that *they* are the cause of most of it!

[wolfie]

To paraphrase a well-known saying (and yes, I'm invoking Godwin's Law)

When Wal-mart wiped out the local furniture store, I didn't object because I didn't own/work for a furniture store.
When Wal-mart wiped out the local clothing store, I didn't object because I didn't own/work for a clothing store.
When Wal-mart wiped out the local grocery store, I didn't object because I didn't own/work for a grocery store.
When Wal-mart wiped out the local hardware store, I didn't object because I didn't own/work for a hardware store.
When Wal-mart wiped out my employer, there was nobody left to speak up for me.