The "Free State" (Maryland) has become a Big Brother Police State! >=(

[Jack T. Chance]

The thing I hate most of all right now is that the state I've lived my entire life in, the state I originally planned to spend my entire life in, is no longer "the Free State". Over the last few years, the various state and local governments have conspired to make Maryland into a police state with massive Big Brother tendencies!

I could post a rather lengthy rant detailing all of the reasons for this, but luckily for all of you reading this, I don't have to. The website StopBigBrotherMD.Org has already done this FOR ME! PLEASE click the link and read the site.

Spend a little time on the site, read some of the stories about what's going on in the supposed "Free State". And realize that if the area you live in is not yet like this, it may be headed that way in the near future. And it's up to YOU to do EVERYTHING you can, legally, to stop this from happening. Become more aware of what bills are making their way through your local and state governments. Write to your government officials. Organize others to get them to do the same. Demand that the citizens of your area be given the right to VOTE on whether or not they want these things! DO YOUR PART. Join the Rebel Alliance and fight back LEGALLY against the Evil Empire!

In the meantime, I'm currently planning my escape. After receiving literally hundreds of dollars in tickets from the damn speed trap cameras that are sprouting up like weeds everywhere you look, I'm calling it quits. I'm in the early stages of planning my move out of the state of my birth, never to return except for occasional, brief visits to see family and friends.

Read the site, realize that YOU HAVE BEEN LIED TO by government agencies in regards to the reasons for deploying these Big Brother tactics, and do something about it. Stand up for your rights, let the local officials know that they can't act like a bunch of NAZIS Communists STREET JUDGES FROM THE COMIC BOOK JUDGE DREDD and get away with it! We'll all be better off.

[Rapscallion]

Are you really comparing speed cameras to the Nazis?

My initial reaction was to suggest that you shouldn't speed. However, the UK has a much different attitude to the US in this regard - our speed cameras by law have to be bright yellow and warning signs about them placed plenty ahead of time.

How prominent are the signs telling you about velocity restrictions? How prominent are the cameras? Ours cannot be hidden, and I suspect yours can. Our lot still catch thousands of people a year, mind.

To call it Big Brother seems too much of an overreaction from this side of things, though. If they were monitoring your phones and emails, I'd have agreed, but this? The speed limit is a law and they're enforcing the law.

I'm usually a careful driver and I got caught last year. I'm no angel,, but after a speed awareness course (to avert points on my licence), I'm far more careful and aware of the possible consequences of speeding.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

As far as the cameras go, I'm not sure if there are even signs. But as far as speed limits go, they have to be visibly posted to be legal. If you get pulled over and there's no signs visible stating the speed limit, you can fight it and will win in court.

Besides getting tickets for running red lights, I'm not really sure what people's arguments against cameras are.

[Peppergirl]

I'm not a fan of speed trap cameras myself. I think they suck and I chuckled about the guy who attacked one and ran off into the woods.

However, I've always found it offensive when people use the term 'nazi' to describe this sort of behavior...for obvious reasons.

[Jack T. Chance]

Are you really comparing speed cameras to the Nazis?

Yes. And you should be, too. Over here on this side of the Pond, we've heard all about the street corner cameras in the UK, invading your privacy while you're stopped at a red light. They're ticketing drivers for eating, drinking, texting, talking on a cell phone, and putting on makeup, WHILE THEY'RE STATIONARY AT A RED LIGHT! And as a result, citizens across the UK have started carrying guns with them to shoot out the infernal cameras, and it's about time, too!

My initial reaction was to suggest that you shouldn't speed.

Unfortunately, it is definitely the case in MD that we have some of the worst traffic congestion in the US, due in part to roads that have speed limits set well below the standard, accepted norms for proper traffic flow. And bottom line, if you don't do AT LEAST 10 miles over the posted speed limit on our highways around here, you WILL NOT be keeping up with the flow of traffic, you WILL cause a traffic jam behind you, and you WILL have the overly aggressive DC area drivers attempting to run you off the road! This is a simple fact of daily life in this area.

However, the UK has a much different attitude to the US in this regard - our speed cameras by law have to be bright yellow and warning signs about them placed plenty ahead of time.

How prominent are the signs telling you about velocity restrictions? How prominent are the cameras? Ours cannot be hidden, and I suspect yours can. Our lot still catch thousands of people a year, mind.

Oh yeah, very different. We're LUCKY if we get a small, white sign under a speed limit sign a couple blocks away from the camera that says "traffic laws photo enforced".

As for the cameras themselves, they are often hard to see. For one thing, they aren't yellow or any other high-visibility color. They're usually gray or beige and blend into the background. I believe this is done intentionally. Numerous local officials have stated ON RECORD before the cameras were deployed that they were being put in place "for public safety." But once they were deployed and operational, the same public officials stated, again, ON THE RECORD (i.e. ON AIR in live interviews) that the cameras weren't generating the amount of revenue they had budgeted for, and so they had to expand the program.

Again, please GO TO StopBigBrotherMD.Org and READ. You don't even have to read much. Just a quick scroll down the front page will tell you A LOT of what we're dealing with. I didn't want to post a 20 minute-long rant, that's why I just posted the link.

The bottom line is, MD has become rife with corruption in our state & local governments. Last fall, the County Executive of the county I live in, his wife, and at least 7 County Police Officers were arrested and indicted for numerous charges of corruption and law-breaking. It's getting REALLY bad here, and only getting worse.

To call it Big Brother seems too much of an overreaction from this side of things, though. If they were monitoring your phones and emails, I'd have agreed, but this? The speed limit is a law and they're enforcing the law.

Yes, but in the process, they're DENYING many of those ticketed their right, under our Constitution, to CONFRONT THEIR ACCUSER(S) IN A COURT OF LAW. Again, please read the website. See what's going on here.

I'm usually a careful driver and I got caught last year. I'm no angel,, but after a speed awareness course (to avert points on my licence), I'm far more careful and aware of the possible consequences of speeding.

Rapscallion

I am too. But if my choice is to either A) do the speed limit, cause a traffic jam, and be run off the road by a road raging asshole, or B) cruise at 10 miles over, keeping up with the flow of traffic, and staying alive, I know which one I'M doing. You must do what you feel is right, of course.

BTW, the cameras are SUPPOSED to be set so that they only go off if you're doing at least 12 miles over the speed limit. But many of the cameras are inaccurate, either by a flaw in their design, or ON PURPOSE to generate more revenue. So in some areas, even people that are DOING THE SPEED LIMIT are getting tickets. It has been found that in EVERY CASE, without fail, EVERY jurisdicition operating these within Maryland's borders has violated at least ONE of the laws governing their use. And worse still, when the jurisdictions have been sued in court over breaking those laws, the cases have conveniently ended up in front of sympathetic judges that ruled in favor of the city/county/whatever.

As far as the cameras go, I'm not sure if there are even signs. But as far as speed limits go, they have to be visibly posted to be legal. If you get pulled over and there's no signs visible stating the speed limit, you can fight it and will win in court.

Besides getting tickets for running red lights, I'm not really sure what people's arguments against cameras are.

There's lots of arguments. For one thing, the whole public safety thing is complete bunk. Data on traffic jams and accidents has shown that deploying these things actually INCREASES the number of accidents, INCREASING the danger to the public. In the meantime, there are older, tested methods of controlling the speed, such as speedbumps and electronic "radar gun" signs which display your speed, which are MORE effective at increasing public safety... but they DON'T increase that jurisdiction's REVENUE, which is what they're REALLY after. It's a MONEY GRAB, plain & simple. A Backdoor Tax... and that's exactly where MD's citizens are taking it... IN THE BACKDOOR without so much as a courtesy reach around!

So, yeah... I was TRYING not to post another novel-length rant here. Looks like I'm failing at that.

Oh, and sorry if I offended anyone by comparing Maryland's government and law enforcement officials to a certain thoroughly evil political and military party from the mid-20th Century. But I do that for a REASON: To get people to THINK about the slippery slope we're on. Where does this crap END? What's the next thing going to be where we allow our public officials to cross the line in the name of "public safety"?

Anyway, I'll edit the offending statement.

[Andara Bledin]

They're ticketing drivers for eating, drinking, texting, talking on a cell phone, and putting on makeup, WHILE THEY'RE STATIONARY AT A RED LIGHT!

These are public places where people are doing things that they agreed not to do when they got their licenses. If you don't want to lose the money, then stop doing the shit that's against the law. But if you do it and get caught, pony up the cash and move on.

Just because you don't get caught most of the time doesn't make it ok.

Honestly, if we're going to fight for the people to be allowed to video tape anything that happens in public, we shouldn't be crying because the state gets to enjoy the same privilege.

Yes, but in the process, they're DENYING many of those ticketed their right, under our Constitution, to CONFRONT THEIR ACCUSER(S) IN A COURT OF LAW.

This is actually a serious problem that needs to be addressed. But it is outside of the existence of the cameras entirely and is entirely about corruption and greed. The cameras in this case just happen to be a means to that end and should not be vilified for the actions of those who would abuse them as such.

OT: not everybody uses the default dark background for the site, so when you change the text color to yellow, it becomes unreadable for those who shift to the blue color scheme.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

Yes. And you should be, too. Over here on this side of the Pond, we've heard all about the street corner cameras in the UK, invading your privacy while you're stopped at a red light. They're ticketing drivers for eating, drinking, texting, talking on a cell phone, and putting on makeup, WHILE THEY'RE STATIONARY AT A RED LIGHT!

You've heard what? Oddly enough, I've barely heard of these. I know enough of UK law to tell me that if the engine is running, or even if the keys are in the ignition, it's considered being in control of the vehicle - even if it's not moving. It's one of those really rare things that occasionally hits the news because it's so rare.

Know what? I've even gone past police and on occasion (almost every, actually) I've not been stopped, strip searched, anally probed, waterboarded, nor have my rights been violated. Most coppers didn't even really register that I was there.

You know, not doing the whole breaking the law by driving too fast thing helps. It sort of draws attention.

As to the concept that I should be comparing speed cameras to nazism, I fell foul of a mobile one operated by a mobile policeman. I didn't end up with a blue tattoo on my wrist. I didn't get herded into a train, naked. I didn't suffer extreme privation and starvation before being herded into a gas chamber. I was caught because I was distracted and was going faster than the law permits in an area where I knew the law in question. It was a standard speed in a built-up area.

And as a result, citizens across the UK have started carrying guns with them to shoot out the infernal cameras, and it's about time, too!

Now I'm going to have to request citation. Burning the fuckers with old tyres around them, sure. Other than that, never heard of guns being used.

Unfortunately, it is definitely the case in MD that we have some of the worst traffic congestion in the US, due in part to roads that have speed limits set well below the standard, accepted norms for proper traffic flow. And bottom line, if you don't do AT LEAST 10 miles over the posted speed limit on our highways around here, you WILL NOT be keeping up with the flow of traffic, you WILL cause a traffic jam behind you, and you WILL have the overly aggressive DC area drivers attempting to run you off the road! This is a simple fact of daily life in this area.

Simple fact - more cars means more congestion, so fewer cars means less. Faster traffic equals more accidents, and accidents slow other non-colliding cars down.

So, a solution to deal with aggressive drivers is ... allow them to drive faster?

Oh yeah, very different. We're LUCKY if we get a small, white sign under a speed limit sign a couple blocks away from the camera that says "traffic laws photo enforced".

Do you get signage telling you what the limit is regularly?

As for the cameras themselves, they are often hard to see. For one thing, they aren't yellow or any other high-visibility color. They're usually gray or beige and blend into the background. I believe this is done intentionally. Numerous local officials have stated ON RECORD before the cameras were deployed that they were being put in place "for public safety." But once they were deployed and operational, the same public officials stated, again, ON THE RECORD (i.e. ON AIR in live interviews) that the cameras weren't generating the amount of revenue they had budgeted for, and so they had to expand the program.

Move to the UK. Only a certain amount of ours are allowed to be operational at any one time. They actually cost the local authorities and police money to run them. Every speeding fine and points issued costs more in financial terms than the fine paid.

Yup, we have it good.

Again, please GO TO StopBigBrotherMD.Org and READ. You don't even have to read much. Just a quick scroll down the front page will tell you A LOT of what we're dealing with. I didn't want to post a 20 minute-long rant, that's why I just posted the link.

I did. I read a load of stuff about how the law being enforced was evil.

The whole concept of Big Brother is that he knew everything and controlled everything. This? It's one issue, one aspect - it's enforcing existing laws.

The bottom line is, MD has become rife with corruption in our state & local governments. Last fall, the County Executive of the county I live in, his wife, and at least 7 County Police Officers were arrested and indicted for numerous charges of corruption and law-breaking. It's getting REALLY bad here, and only getting worse.

This has what to do with the law on speeding being enforced? These aren't really the sort of people I'd expect to be processing speeding fines.

Yes, but in the process, they're DENYING many of those ticketed their right, under our Constitution, to CONFRONT THEIR ACCUSER(S) IN A COURT OF LAW. Again, please read the website. See what's going on here.

So, one of the claims is that the accuser is a machine that is not brought into court. So, let me get this straight. If someone was shown to be guilty on the grounds of decent CCTV footage of a mugging, if they couldn't bring the cameras and equipment themselves into court then the defendant could walk free?

The camera is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It's those who use the tool that you face. I'll admit I'm not an expert in the US constitution, so maybe someone could enlighten me as to this?

I am too. But if my choice is to either A) do the speed limit, cause a traffic jam, and be run off the road by a road raging asshole, or B) cruise at 10 miles over, keeping up with the flow of traffic, and staying alive, I know which one I'M doing. You must do what you feel is right, of course.

Once again I rejoice that I live in a place where road rage is relatively rare. It happens, but we achieved cultural puberty a while ago and don't usually experience such.

BTW, the cameras are SUPPOSED to be set so that they only go off if you're doing at least 12 miles over the speed limit. But many of the cameras are inaccurate, either by a flaw in their design, or ON PURPOSE to generate more revenue. So in some areas, even people that are DOING THE SPEED LIMIT are getting tickets. It has been found that in EVERY CASE, without fail, EVERY jurisdicition operating these within Maryland's borders has violated at least ONE of the laws governing their use. And worse still, when the jurisdictions have been sued in court over breaking those laws, the cases have conveniently ended up in front of sympathetic judges that ruled in favor of the city/county/whatever. There's lots of arguments. For one thing, the whole public safety thing is complete bunk. Data on traffic jams and accidents has shown that deploying these things actually INCREASES the number of accidents, INCREASING the danger to the public. In the meantime, there are older, tested methods of controlling the speed, such as speedbumps and electronic "radar gun" signs which display your speed, which are MORE effective at increasing public safety... but they DON'T increase that jurisdiction's REVENUE, which is what they're REALLY after. It's a MONEY GRAB, plain & simple. A Backdoor Tax... and that's exactly where MD's citizens are taking it... IN THE BACKDOOR without so much as a courtesy reach around!

Wow, you're really passionate about this, aren't you? I'd really suggest choosing your battles more carefully.

Speedbumps - often have been noted as having a deleterious effect on the spines of those going over them regularly, such as bus drivers.

Most of this looks like copy/paste from the site itself. Not convinced that their content is anything other than hysteria. Claiming that speed cameras are Big Brother is hyperbolic and counterproductive to the arguments made.

So, yeah... I was TRYING not to post another novel-length rant here. Looks like I'm failing at that.

Oh, and sorry if I offended anyone by comparing Maryland's government and law enforcement officials to a certain thoroughly evil political and military party from the mid-20th Century. But I do that for a REASON: To get people to THINK about the slippery slope we're on. Where does this crap END? What's the next thing going to be where we allow our public officials to cross the line in the name of "public safety"?

Anyway, I'll edit the offending statement.

What, and leave in the concept that I should consider speed cameras and their masters to be Nazis in the post I quoted as well?

I think the short version for me is that driving is a privelege you earn, and it's something by which you gain it by agreeing to certain rules. Break the rules, face the consequences. Over here, if you get four speeding tickets in a certain amount of time, you're banned from driving until the points wear off.

Maybe if the US had that system, the 'asshole road ragers' would think more about their actions. I'm often stunned when I hear that drivers are often into their teens in DUIs before they have their licence removed.

Rapscallion

[AdminAssistant]

Speedbumps - often have been noted as having a deleterious effect on the spines of those going over them regularly, such as bus drivers.

Speedbumps also cost lives because they slow down emergency/rescue vehicles.

[Andara Bledin]

Speedbumps also cost lives because they slow down emergency/rescue vehicles.

I lived in a gated community that decided that speed bumps would be an awesome way to slow traffic down. The city made them shave them down to a fraction of their original height so that if someone's house caught fire, the fire department could get there before it had burned completely to the ground and started on their neighbors.

To be quite honest, in cases such as at red lights, I'd just as soon use automated observation systems. Even semi-automated is better than taking the time of trained responders to catch petty fools doing foolish things.

^-.-^

[BlaqueKatt]

this is a good article on what causes crashes-the main factor is speed.

a pedestrian walks out in front of a car. If the car is traveling at just 30 mph, and the driver brakes when the pedestrian is 45 feet away, there will be enough space in which to stop without hitting the pedestrian. Increase the vehicle speed by just 5 mph and the situation changes dramatically. At 35 mph, with the pedestrian 45 feet away and the driver braking at the same point, the car will be traveling at 18 mph when it hits the pedestrian. An impact at 18 mph can seriously injure or even kill the pedestrian.

on the highway replace pedestrian with "animal" or "car with a blowout"

also found this from the Aussies

The risk of a crash when driving at 68km/h in a 60km/h zone is the same as driving with a blood alcohol level of 0.08. The risk of a crash when driving at 72km/h in a 60km/h zone is the same as driving with a blood alcohol level of 0.12.

A key issue in speeding-related crashes is that most motorists underestimate the distance needed to stop. A car travelling at 60km/h in dry conditions takes about 38 metres to stop. A car travelling at 80km/h needs an extra 20 metres.

but yup it's all oppression and money grubbing

or communism-I do not think that word means what you think it does-and comparing anything to the Nazis does not "make someone think about the slippery slope" it makes them think you are overreacting, and have no actual argument-see Reductio ad Hitlerum-congrats you have just been awarded a logical fallacy.....actually several "slippery slope" is itself a fallacy....as is Argumentum ad populum (appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to the people): where a proposition is claimed to be true or good solely because many people believe it to be so(such as "everyone speeds, so speed cameras and speed limits are bad"), I'll stop there, but it's really hard to take seriously an argument that is mostly made up of fallacies.....

[protege]

Do you get signage telling you what the limit is regularly?

For the most part, yes. However, there are some areas, where the speed limit drops (say, from 40mph to 25mph)...and there aren't any warning signs of that. In fact, I got nailed a couple of months back in one of those 'zones." I'd just left the highway, saw the 40mph sign...and since I wasn't from the area, I obeyed it. Imagine my surprise, when the state trooper is pulling me over...for exceeding the (unposted) 25mph speed limit. Seems that they'd had some "complaints" about people driving "too fast" in the area. I wasn't the only one pulled over either. As the cop was writing my ticket, two more cars got pulled over in quick succession. When I left the area, I noticed another 40mph speed limit sign. Still think that it's not a money grab?

I couldn't even *fight* the damn ticket. It was just my word against his. The cop did cite me for the lesser charge, which was similar to running a stop sign. I couldn't fight it, because I'd have to *admit* I was speeding (even though the sign wasn't posted). To do so, I'd be shooting myself in the foot. Better to pay the minimal fine, and be done with it.

So, one of the claims is that the accuser is a machine that is not brought into court. So, let me get this straight. If someone was shown to be guilty on the grounds of decent CCTV footage of a mugging, if they couldn't bring the cameras and equipment themselves into court then the defendant could walk free?

In that case, the defendant would still have to face his accuser--the victim--at trial. But, suppose that the speed camera isn't working correctly. Shouldn't the accused be able to prove themselves innocent? Instead, they're automatically guilty. Why is one accuser allowed to, and the other isn't?


Also, speed isn't the sole factor that causes accidents. It might be a contributing factor--the main causes of wrecks are driver inattention, or a lack of driving ability. Look at all the idiots who fly during snowstorms...only to spin out and take out a tree. Even at 5mph you can hit something on ice. I know this first hand--several years ago, I nearly rolled my Tercel. I was coming down the last hill before my mother's, and the street was a sheet of ice. Even at 5mph, the tail swung out so quickly, I barely had time to react. I spun all the way around, slid off the road, and had my neighbor's snow pile not been there...I'd have flipped the car, and landed in his yard--which was below street level!

Then there's the time I got hit in 2000. The guy who hit me was not only speeding...but fucking around with his cellphone. Had he not been screwing around with that damn phone, he might not have hit me.

Lastly, I should mention this. Some of you know that I'm a big fan of sports car racing. Every year, we have the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix in Schenley Park. According to the media, it's one of the most challenging courses in the country. All of the roads they race on...are public roads. The entire park is posted 25-35mph. Yet, for that weekend, we have cars going about 55-65mph. They're going twice the speed limit, yet with only a few exceptions, there are rarely accidents--the most recent, was a '59 Alfa sedan flipping after a blowout.

The reason? Not only are many of those cars highly developed, but so are the drivers. The drivers know what they're doing--they have to have a competition license, or they're not allowed to race.

[Jack T. Chance]

OT: not everybody uses the default dark background for the site, so when you change the text color to yellow, it becomes unreadable for those who shift to the blue color scheme.

^-.-^

Jiminy Christmas, whatever happened to the good ol' days of just ONE theme for the forum so that people posting on it didn't have to worry about nonsense like that?!?

I've adjusted the colors in my posts, hope that works better for you.

I've also once again edited my first post so that it now references FICTITIOUS CHARACTERS THAT HAVE NEVER EXISTED! Happy now?!?

I'll reply to everything else later.

[Andara Bledin]

Jiminy Christmas, whatever happened to the good ol' days of just ONE theme for the forum so that people posting on it didn't have to worry about nonsense like that?!?

I'd leave it the default color, but there's something odd about the way my work monitor and the fluorescent lighting interact that the background strobes really badly. And I've only seen it happen with this forum, so I'm not sure what the issue is.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

When I'm confident enough in the new upgrades to VB, I'll update to the next stage. Unfortunately, this skin isn't going to be updated to VB4, so I'll have to buy new skins then. It will change, but immediately is not imminent.

Rapscallion

[BlaqueKatt]

Also, speed isn't the sole factor that causes accidents. It might be a contributing factor--the main causes of wrecks are driver inattention, or a lack of driving ability.

never said it was, but it is the number 2 cause, responsible for 30% of crashes, personally as a cyclist, I find it downright scary that I'm wearing bright colors and flashing lights and drivers STILL don't see me, I was cut off twice in the last two days, and had a lady inching forward antici[ating the green light when I was crossing in front of her car(I had the green), I was less than a foot from her front bumper, directly in front of her AND SHE DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE ME! Mind you I was wearing bright purple, and had no less than 5 flashing lights on me(I tend to resemble a mobile rave without the techno music)-I'm getting a helmet cam....

Then there's the time I got hit in 2000. The guy who hit me was not only speeding...but fucking around with his cellphone. Had he not been screwing around with that damn phone, he might not have hit me

true and had he not been speeding, he or you may have had time to react and prevent the crash.