body policing<very ranty>

[blas87]

I've read those posts before, but I just figure people have creep radar for a reason. It can be wrong, but if it goes off, it goes off for a reason.

People do over-react a lot. I meant no disrespect towards anyone or to make it seem as if I was calling people out. I believe I may have read previous posts incorrectly, and I felt as if posters like Kisa and lupo were being made out to be over-reacting or that they shouldn't post about being hit on. I got the idea that people think others (not necessarily those we were referencing) should be happy they get hit on. But believe you me, I don't wish the comments that have been made to me on my worst enemy. It's gross.

[linguist]

P I got the idea that people think others (not necessarily those we were referencing) should be happy they get hit on.

i don't think that's it at all. i think that it was more along the lines of those who take innocent comments, gestures, and looks as "omg that creep just hit on me!" it's something i see far more often than i'd like among my acquaintances. one girl i know, i seriously don't get why she even bothers to go out in public at all, because all she ever does is bitch and moan about guys staring at her (when in reality they did nothing more than glance in her direction for maybe half a second), and if any strange guy says so much as "hello," according to her it's clearly just to get into her pants.

[BlaqueKatt]

I think I might start another thread on the subject.

we had one a while back

[guywithashovel]

i don't think that's it at all. i think that it was more along the lines of those who take innocent comments, gestures, and looks as "omg that creep just hit on me!" it's something i see far more often than i'd like among my acquaintances. one girl i know, i seriously don't get why she even bothers to go out in public at all, because all she ever does is bitch and moan about guys staring at her (when in reality they did nothing more than glance in her direction for maybe half a second), and if any strange guy says so much as "hello," according to her it's clearly just to get into her pants.

And then they usually act like every guy is a leering, frothing-at-the-mouth serial rapist out to stalk and violate every woman who crosses his path.

[Eisa]

I did find it a little creepy last week when I went to the gay bar and my friend said this one guy wanted my number. I thought he was gay. We'd talked for...less than ten minutes? And as soon as he -had- my number, he started telling me how cute I was, that I had a pretty face, and that he wanted to see me in the bar all the time. Yeah, I found that rather...coming on strong.

I'm not as thin as I'd like to be, so I'm super self-conscious about the way I look anyway. I know I'm not pretty. I make it to cute sometimes. I hate the looks and comments, although mine are mostly on my clothes. So I like being...unique. Who the fuck cares, I don't have a job right now, and this is just what I want to wear.

I've never liked wearing shorts, but that's because of camping/hiking as a child and if you wear shorts and fall down, you skin the fuck out of your knees.

[BlaqueKatt]

The other side is people dressing like prostitutes.

as one of the behind the scenes organizers of my city's local "Slutwalk", I say "So what?" Are we bringing back the morality brigades?

[Nyoibo]

as one of the behind the scenes organizers of my city's local "Slutwalk", I say "So what?" Are we bringing back the morality brigades?

No, but if you're going to dress like that then you're going to get hit on ond/or leered at so deal with it and don't bitch about it.

[Ree]

as one of the behind the scenes organizers of my city's local "Slutwalk"

I'm assuming that title was chosen for its controversy, but I have to say, I think it defeated its purpose.

From what I understand the walk was meant to prove that women can dress as they wish, and that does not excuse rape, but, aside from it being a quote from a police officer who said women should stop dressing as "sluts" if they want to stay safe, I seriously question the use of the word "slut" as part of the title.

Did the women feel they were dressing "slutty"?
Did they feel they could be considered "sluts"?

Aside from a possibly ironic meaning, I think they did more harm than good with that name. I think, by choosing that name, and marching in skimpy clothes, the women gave validation to what the officer said.

[Lachrymose]

No, but if you're going to dress like that then you're going to get hit on ond/or leered at so deal with it and don't bitch about it.

That's dangerously close to "she asked to be raped".

[Andara Bledin]

as one of the behind the scenes organizers of my city's local "Slutwalk", I say "So what?" Are we bringing back the morality brigades?

How many actual working prostitutes have you actually seen? To a woman, every one I've seen has given life to the phrase "skanky ho."

And a quick browse through Google images didn't show me any Slutwalk (and I agree that the name is honestly terrible) walkers who dressed anything like working whores. There were a ton in bikinis, a ton in shorts and bikini tops, quite a few in industrial underwear (why would you want to run around wearing that unflattering stuff and nothing else?) and a few in Tank Girl style punk outfits. For all that it's supposed to be about being able to wear, or not wear, what you want, many to most of the walkers appear to show up in everyday attire.

^-.-^

[Rebel]

And a quick browse through Google images didn't show me any Slutwalk (and I agree that the name is honestly terrible) walkers who dressed anything like working whores. There were a ton in bikinis, a ton in shorts and bikini tops, quite a few in industrial underwear (why would you want to run around wearing that unflattering stuff and nothing else?) and a few in Tank Girl style punk outfits. For all that it's supposed to be about being able to wear, or not wear, what you want, many to most of the walkers appear to show up in everyday attire.

^-.-^

And who here has never been called a slut or frigid while wearing every day clothes?

I have size D boobs. Even if I wear a bulky hoodie, you can still see them. During the past NHL season I was wearing a fitted Canucks T-shirt with jeans. I was asked by at least 3 random guys walking down the street if they could 'motorboat' me and I had a few older women yell at me that I was a slut. To the 'gentlemen' that I turned down, I was called a 'frigid slut'.

Charming.

I feel that during these verbal attacks I had hardly been dressed as a slut and I don't feel I had those sort of comments coming to me. But I guess according to those people I had interacted with, by dressing that way, I was just asking to be raped or assaulted.

And while I'm not 100% behind the idea of a Slutwalk, I do like the message its trying to send. 'You can't rape sluts either' and 'Rapists rape people, not outfits'.

[Hyena Dandy]

That's dangerously close to "she asked to be raped".

No its not. There's a difference between being leered at and being raped.

Interaction between strangers is about subtle messages. Clothes are a part of that. There's only so many ways you can communicate without talking to someone, and clothes factor in. If you're dressed provocatively, that sends the message that you're available. Expect to be hit on.

That's not the same as being raped. If you tell them to fuck off and they don't stop, then they're acting inappropriately. While I don't approve of blaming the victim, and I think it is a good message to send that "You can't judge me on my clothes" you can't expect to take clothing completely out of the social interaction.

Now, if you're hit on, and you reject them, and they keep hitting on you, that's on them. They're being inappropriate. If, like Rebel's case, you're dressed perfectly normally and happen to be hit on, they're also behaving inappropriately, and that's their fault. Rape, obviously, is always inappropriate and always the rapist's fault. But just being hit on is to be expected if you're dressed availably.

Also, I was at my city's slutwalk. I didn't see anybody there who really looked like a prostitute. I saw a lot of people dressed scantily, and even provocatively, but I didn't see anyone dressed like a prostitute.

Sometimes the mood takes me to dress oddly. Like with a pirate hat, or a venetian mask, or a bright pink wig. If I'm dressed oddly, I expect to be treated oddly. If I wear a suit, I expect to be treated differently than if I wear jeans and a T-Shirt. If I wear a venetian mask, I expect to get a lot of odd looks.

You should be allowed to dress however you like, but with that should come the acceptance that you likely WILL have people treating you the way you dress, because they have very little to go off.



To summarize.

1) Dress however you like (within legal limits).
2) Expect people to treat you the way you dress.
3) "Dressing like you're available and interested will lead to people hitting on you" is not the same as "Dressing like you're available and interested will mean it's your fault if you're raped."

[Andara Bledin]

And who here has never been called a slut or frigid while wearing every day clothes?

Well, me for one.

I did have one friend call me wanton, once. Which the rest of the crew found to be particularly funny as I was nearly the least wanton of the entire group.

^-.-^

[Nyoibo]

That's dangerously close to "she asked to be raped".

Nowhere near, Hyena summed it up fairly well, the way you dress is one of the first impressions you give someone, dress skimpily with everything on display it send the message you're available and people will check out what's on display. No one asks to be raped and if someone can't understand the concept of "Look but don't touch" then it's all on them, not someone else for how they dress.

[Hyena Dandy]

Looking back at the original post, I don't see a problem with complaining on a third party website if you think someone looks hideous. In all but the most extreme cases, it shouldn't be appropriate to tell someone you think they look hideous (and if its something they can't help, its never appropriate) but I don't see the reason I can't tell my friend someone looks horrible/stupid/whatever.