THEN MOVE!! / My life my choice

[HEMI6point1]

Was debating what forum to put this in. In the end, grab bag won out.

1. If you hate it so much here, then move!

Recently, Forbes published a list of the top 10 happiest countries. The USA was dead last, in fact it wouldn't be on the list if IMO Forbes wasn't an American company and probably put it on there to save face.

Wonder why the top 5 are so happy?

Some good reasons:

1. Free universal healthcare.

2. Free or severely discounted college education.

3. Incredibly tough gun laws.

4. Employers are forced to give employees at least 6-8 weeks paid vacation a year, unlike the US where most places will give you 1 week or 2 max if you're lucky.

Yet when I say this, what is the typical response? "Well then if you hate it here so much, then move!"

So explaining how other countries offer more than us makes me a hater? Look, I didn't make the stats up.

2. My life, my choice.

This happened on a motorsports forum some time ago. One of the members posted that seatbelt laws should be repealed because "It's just another attack on our freedoms."

I posted this:

"So you're going to run the risk of dying in an otherwise survivable crash just because you want to be a big tough guy and wave around your freedom flag?"

He responded with this:

"The difference between a seatbelt and no seatbelt is an open and closed casket. MY LIFE, MY CHOICE."

I responded by saying this:

"A very selfish choice! You run the risk of leaving your family without you just because you decided that taking two seconds out of your life to buckle up and increase a crash survival by 90% is too difficult for you and 'invading your freedoms'!"

His response?

"What in it to you? If I want to drive without a seatbelt on knowing the risks, then I should be able to do that. People like you (meaning: liberals) always want to tell other people what to do. Haven't you ever heard of 'Live and let live'?"

And yet in another thread about a month later, he denounced abortion is wrong etc etc....

Word to this guy: Seatbelt laws and like exist to try and prevent you from being STUPID! Not to "invade your freedom"....

[Andara Bledin]

Yet when I say this, what is the typical response? "Well then if you hate it here so much, then move!"

Ugh. >_< This is so stupid.

If you don't address your shortcomings, you can never improve. Cheerleading does nothing to make the US a better place to be; you just get echo chamber stagnation.

"The difference between a seatbelt and no seatbelt is an open and closed casket. MY LIFE, MY CHOICE."

This is an incredibly simplistic and ignorant statement. There's a lot more difference between wearing and not wearing that just such a plain binary, not the least of which is the safety of everybody else in the vehicle.

Some people are too stupid not to put on ignore.

^-.-^

[guywithashovel]

This reminds me of something that caught my eye when I happened upon one of Newt Gingrich's books in Walden Books several months ago. In one passage, he quoted Obama as saying something to the effect of "America is great in the same sense that most other countries are great. We have good qualities as well as they do."

Gingrich's response was "So, in other words, he doesn't think we're anything special. We're just another country on the map."

He was actually mad because Obama didn't say that we were special and better than everyone else (and he belongs to a group of people who are often accusing others of having entitlement mentalities).

Actually, we really aren't better than anyone else. And really, we aren't anything special. Sure, we have freedoms in this country, but other countries enjoy many of the same freedoms we do. In fact, many of them enjoy MORE freedoms than we do. For example, people in most European countries--which often get derided as tyrannical socialist countries---don't have to worry about going bankrupt because of medical bills. Also, people in most of those countries aren't told they can't marry the person they love just because that person happens to be of the same sex.

As for guns, it's really weird the way people think in this country. Consider this: When I was 16 years old, I wanted to get a driver's license. In order to do that, the first step was I had to get a learner's permit, and to do that I had to take and pass a test on driving laws. Then, I had to have that permit for at least six months, during which time I had to take and pass a driver's education course. Once I'd completed that course and had my permit for at least six months, I could get my driver's license---but not before passing another written test and two driving test: one test driving on the road, and the other driving through traffic cones. Once I'd passed those tests and gone through all the other stuff, I was finally awarded a driver's license and granted the priviledge of driving.

And most people are okay with requiring such measures, too.

However---we have a segment of the population that thinks that anyone, regardless of age, mental capacity, criminal record, etc. should be able to walk into a convenience store and purchase any firearm of his or her choice, no questions asked, and any restrictions on that are "crimes against liberty."

Heck, if you suggest that people who want to have guns should have to go through the same types of steps I had to go through to drive a car, they'll do the Liberty Shuffle and claim you are impeding freedom.

[draco664]

Actually, we really aren't better than anyone else. And really, we aren't anything special. Sure, we have freedoms in this country, but other countries enjoy many of the same freedoms we do.

You'd be surprised.

The US *is* a great country, not because of its economic power, or its food production, or its sporting success, or anything like that. It's a great country because if it's constitution and Bill of Rights.

Sure, other countries have a Bill of Rights. But they are almost all aimed at restricting individuals, rather than (a la the US) restricting the government. Here in Australia, a prominent conservative journalist and blogger was sued in court for offending 9 'pale-skinned' Aboriginies. In two columns, he pointed out that they were identifying with a minor (at best) part of their genetic heritage, which just happened to supply them with a disproportionate amount of welfare.

(eg, he pointed out that an art prize set up for aboriginal women was won by a white man who self-identified as aboriginal)

He was found guilty, and can no longer speak on the topic.

So while Australia does have 'freedom of speech', it's only speech that doesn't offend someone, which means that it's not free at all.

[HEMI6point1]

Funny you talk about guns. The US is behind only the worst war-torn countries when it comes to DBG (Death by Gun).

How many gun deaths did the UK have last year? The number is low, I can tell you that. Hell Miami-Dade county probably has more shooting deaths in a month than Europe has in a year!

And not to get too political, but when the 2nd amendment was written I seriously doubt our founding fathers envisioned people being able to possess things like UZI's and AK-47's.

[Greenday]

And not to get too political, but when the 2nd amendment was written I seriously doubt our founding fathers envisioned people being able to possess things like UZI's and AK-47's.

I do seeing as the whole point is to allow the people to protect themselves from attackers and tyrannical government.

[draco664]

Funny you talk about guns. The US is behind only the worst war-torn countries when it comes to DBG (Death by Gun).

How many gun deaths did the UK have last year? The number is low, I can tell you that.

I feel I should point out that there seems to be a persistent myth in the US that the UK doesn't have any guns. It's not true, not at all. There's a lot of gun-regulations, but hunting is a *big* sport in the UK.

Hell Miami-Dade county probably has more shooting deaths in a month than Europe has in a year!

Not if you count Norway this year...

And not to get too political, but when the 2nd amendment was written I seriously doubt our founding fathers envisioned people being able to possess things like UZI's and AK-47's.

The 2nd amendment says 'arms', not 'guns'. It was supposed to cover not only the muskets and other primative firearms of the time, but also swords and other hand held weapons.

[bex1218]

The US has the potential to be a great country, but the government is so crooked here.

[Andara Bledin]

The US has the potential to be a great country, but the government is so crooked here.

The government would never have gotten this bad if it weren't for the apathy of so many of the people. >_<

^-.-^

[Nekojin]

Funny you talk about guns. The US is behind only the worst war-torn countries when it comes to DBG (Death by Gun).

How many gun deaths did the UK have last year? The number is low, I can tell you that. Hell Miami-Dade county probably has more shooting deaths in a month than Europe has in a year!

Would you care to cite your sources on this claim? Particularly the first paragraph, but supporting the second with any real figures, and not hand-wavy supposition, would be good.

[bex1218]

Our rights are slowly getting taken away because a few "Christians" (I use that term loosely these days) are getting their way. Ands thats doesn't even scratch the surface.

[HEMI6point1]

Would you care to cite your sources on this claim? Particularly the first paragraph, but supporting the second with any real figures, and not hand-wavy supposition, would be good.

I live in Broward, one county up from M-D. Every day there's a news story or three about the same ol' same ol' gun violence.

As for the other one:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

[Nekojin]

I live in Broward, one county up from M-D. Every day there's a news story or three about the same ol' same ol' gun violence.

Which is meaningless, because the reporting on violence has escalated dramatically while the actual crime rates over the past two decades has dropped.

As for the other one:http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms

I suggest you explore that site a bit more extensively, and take your time. But I'll give you a few points for free:

1.) Click on the "Map" link at the top of your list. Note how many countries don't have any reported data at all.

2.) Check out the non-firearm homicide rate page, and note that the list is very similar. (Hint: It's not the guns, after all!)

3.) Check out Assaults and Rapes, and note that the UK (and several other European countries) are notably higher than the US.

[Jaden]

I'm unhappy. Is it because of where I live? No. I wouldn't really want to live anywhere other than the US. Like draco said - the Constitution and the Bill of Rights aren't just legal documents, they're works of God damn art. And also like draco said, unlike in many other countries, our bill of rights is designed to protect us rather than protect the government. Our founding fathers were, quite frankly, pure geniuses, and no amount of screwing up on the part of partisan politics can change that.

As for "our rights slowly getting taken away," I certainly don't think so. I, for one, am optimistic for the future of the country. America certainly has its problems, no denying it, and they need to be worked on. I don't think it'll be much longer before gay marriage is legal nationwide, as well it should be. Most of my generation is supportive of gay marriage, and we'll be the ones running things soon enough. I also don't think that things like anti-contraception legislation will stick.

I'm not a flag-waving redneck, but I've got no problems with America that I wouldn't have with any other country I'd choose to live in, and if I do, they'd just be replaced by other problems. That's just how the world is, it's not country specific.

[Rapscallion]

Interesting.

After spending quite a bit of time on forums such as this and CS, where the majority of members are from the US, I have to say the US culture is pretty damned scary.

There are good parts, and there are downright 'holy fuck did you just say that?' parts.

The workplace culture is based around long hours at often low wages because that's the only way the companies providing jobs can compete with others, yet there are many amongst the low-paid who support that system that I'm gobsmacked.

Tread down on your fellow low-paid worker? Yup, that's good because it's our way. That guy with the money? He's obviously a worthy person because he has so much money, so we'll make sure he gets more! Only two weeks off a year if I'm lucky? Woo - that's great! (I get 34 days a year currently, including national days - just saying - that's national days plus four weeks or so). Culturally, it's accepted that many lower-paid workers need to have two or three jobs to make ends meet, without being able to plan for the future. Companies won't take many people on full time because of the need to pay benefits.

My fellow Americans, and those others who are here that I can screw over as I try to trample my way up. For many, if there was ownership involved or unbreakable contracts it would be nearly serfdom or indentured servitude.

The health system is unaffordable for most people, and when someone tries to make steps towards affordable healthcare he's a socialist, a communist, a muslim, or unamerican - or all of the above. Despite this, people who would otherwise benefit from his actions deride the person trying to improve their lives.

I don't need to get into the religion angle, since that's been covered heavily. However, the US has a very skewed view of itself and pride in things that are incomprehensible.

Interesting link, Nekojin. I'm getting ready for work right now, but is there anything that puts it into perspective on, say, a per capita basis?

Also, I can't remember who mentioned hunting in the UK - it's not really that big a sport. Apart from fishing, and I don't know if that counts, I don't currently know anyone who hunts.

Rapscallion