has religion become about hate?

[Arcade Man D]

Well Ree (and Flyn), if it says anything about the church, my mother no longer considers herself Methodist. She still follows Christ but she refuses to affiliate with a church. This came about after discovering the Methodist Church (Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors... yeah, bullshit), turned me away in Salt Lake (which she was willing to write off as one bad apple) and then later the involvement of Methodist churches in Maine participating in Yes on 1.
A year ago my mother would refuse to accept that a church could be hateful... now she refuses to affiliate with them because of the hatred shared by mainstream christianity in the United States (or at least Maine, California, Nevada, and Utah).
That said, she, like I, still have and never will lose faith in the Almighty. Membership in a religion is no indication of a person's faith in God, though it may be an indicator of what type of person they are (very few people who are active in the Mormon church are accepting of gays, as one example).

Suggest the Episcopal or Evangelical Lutheran churches to your mother (if she still wants to join an organized church). Both of them have adopted official stances that state explicitly that homosexuality is not a sin, and will even perform same-sex marriages.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

So you need religion to feel part of a group? My girlfriend gets that by playing D&D.

So, your girlfriend needs D&D to feel part of a group?

C'mon, saying this in regards to Ree's post is grasping at farts.

[BroomJockey]

What's really so wrong with the community aspect of organized religion?

It's the same thing that's wrong with any community that has specific ideological requirements to join. Everyone's beliefs reinforce each other's. If everyone starts out open-minded and caring, you'll likely stay that way. The community does nothing to aid that. If a close-minded person joins a community like that, they may change, though they're more likely to leave and find a different community that is more closely aligned with their beliefs.

If you start out with a group of close-minded people, they'll feed off each other and only become more stony. And if an open-minded person joined, they may leave, or they may start to absorb the views of the community through continual reinforcement of the "norm." Especially if there are not other groups available. The open-minded person is at greater risk because they're willing to give the close-minded the benefit of the doubt. The guise of religion does absolutely nothing to alleviate this, and actually can be more damaging, since many religious people are of the opinion "any church is better than no church." This forces them in to continual contact with people who have damaging beliefs.

So, the propensity to damage open-mindedness through indoctrination is what's wrong with the community aspect of organized religion.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Any community of people are to some extent, of like mind. I can't think of one that isn't.

Manufactured ones, like religion, clubs, or what have you are of like mind.

Naturally occuring ones, like circles of friends, families, and social scenes are also.

You may not agree with EVERYTHING everyone in your group believes, but you are close enough to the common thought that you end up part of the group.

[Ree]

So, the propensity to damage open-mindedness through indoctrination is what's wrong with the community aspect of organized religion.

I'm sorry that's been your experience.
My comments are based off of my own experiences, and, as I said, that hasn't been my personal experience.

[guywithashovel]

I try not to think about religion as being about hate. I did have some bad tastes of it while growing up, and religion did cause me to make some decisions that I am now regretting just a little. Many of the people I was in church with as a kid seemed to have this attitude that they were above everyone else because of their religious practices. But I try to focus on the things about religion that sometimes interest me, like the philosophical aspect and the focus on the mysteries of life. I know that not all religious organizations and people are like what I have experienced.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

But again, your experience is based on the people who are failing to live by their own professed creed. That is not the religion's fault.

I suppose there are people out there saying "the Baptist christians are bad because of how hateful the Westboro church is (they are the very misguided idiots picketing funerals). Well, the Westboro idiots are not practicing any form of Christianity. They are operating their own cult while claiming to be Christian, and performing profoundly unChristlike actions while doing it.

I could also claim to be a Tibetian monk, but that would not make it true that I was one.

[BroomJockey]

But again, your experience is based on the people who are failing to live by their own professed creed. That is not the religion's fault.

No, but if you only ever meet people who fail at the religion, then it really doesn't matter how good the religion is. After all, it's only as good as the people following it. Same for most ideas.

After all, national pride is a wonderful thing.

Then next thing, people are goose-stepping into the Rhineland.

/Godwin

[Slytovhand]

Actually BJ, the analogy is fair.

The only real difference between a religion and what happened during the dark ages of Nazi Germany (implying that there was actually some good aspects of it), was the direction specifically taken, and the specific reasons behind what happened.

Religion has been one of the biggest promoters of war amongst humanity for thousands of years. The threats perceived by the Germans during the 20's and 30's were very little different.... 'our way of being has been attacked - we must defend ourselves, let's rally under this person whom we see as having our best interests at heart'.

So, in what BJ is saying, it's not so much the 'organisation' that is the problem, it's that people often sacrifice their own personal identity - including their own ideals, ethics and even braincells - for the sake of that organisation. It's when people stop thinking for themselves, even if they agree with the majority of the organisation in general, that organisations start to fail.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

It's when people stop thinking for themselves, even if they agree with the majority of the organisation in general, that organisations start to fail.

Well, I can't argue with this. It's true.

[Flyndaran]

Individual humans can be nice. Groups of humans are the most diabolical forces for destruction and suffering that ever existed.

One man believing in a dude in the sky can be nice. Get a bunch of them together, then they outlaw sex ed.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Crowds suck, people rock.

[Flyndaran]

Crowds suck, people rock.

Crowds always suck, while people or persons CAN rock. They certainly don't do it automatically.

[Anthony K. S.]

"People are smart. They can handle it."
"A person can be smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it."

- Men In Black

[Adoyle90815]

The way I see it, there are some people who pick the most hateful parts of the Bible, Koran, or some other religious text and use those parts to justify their hatred of those who aren't like them. There are also those who are religious, yet they actually practice what their religion actually teaches, which is showing unconditional love or promoting peace.